From garyamort at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 12:19:56 2011 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 12:19:56 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment Message-ID: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> I've been driven a little crazy lately with trying to develop for Joomla with the following limitations: 1) Half the sites use PHP 5.2 and half of them use PHP 5.3 2) Sometimes I'm online and sometimes I'm offline I kept coming back to "if only I was using linux, I could set things up more easily".... Then it struck me that my desktop is a beefy system memorywise[this solution is gonna take a lot of memory] - so I gave VirtualBox a try. http://www.virtualbox.org/ VirtualBox basically allows you to run different operating systems in a virtual environment. For my current setup, I started with Ubuntu Server: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server/download For the VirtualBox settings, choose fixed disk size - not dynamic. I use 10GB, it eats up the full space but improves performance. My system has 8GB of memory, so I give the system 2GB of ram, I'd suggest nothing under 1GB. in the network settings for the virtual machine, I setup TWO network adapters. Adapter 1 is set to "bridged adapter", the name is selected from my active adapter. This allows the system to connect through yours to the internet. Adapter 2 is a "Host Only Adapter" - basically it's a "fake" network adapter that allows your pc communicate with the VM and the VM communicate with you. So if your doing this on a laptop, you can still work even while offline. ****For the application settings[File-->Preferences] - go to the network settings and configure the virtual network adapter settings. The important bit here is to disable the dhcp server. When installing Ubuntu, setup adapter 1 for DHCP and adapter 2 as a static IP address in a different network[most home networks are 192.168.1.0 or 192.168.2.0 - so I give my internal only network the address 192.168.129.1, netmask 255.255.255.0 - no default gateway!] Openssh is important to install for decent CLI access. Samba should be installed to make it easy to access the files on the server[just share out your web directory and then you can map the drive and access it from your favorite web editor]. Git, subversion, and mercurial should be installed since you need it at some point I always make sure to install wget Now, the piece of magic that makes this all work, DNSMasq: http://thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html DNSMasq allows you to run a DHCP server and DNS cache on the virtual machine. So you setup the DHCP server to give out an IP address to your system, and have it pass itself along as the DNS server[make VERY sure to also specify a blank gateway/router so all your internet traffic goes to the right place]. The importan bits I've found: interface=eth1 interface=lo ^^^these 2 lines makes sure that your system doesn't try to take over your "real" network address=/osm/192.168.56.1 domain=osm ^^^this sets up the "fake" domain osm and configures it so any domain ending in .osm will be given the ip address 192.168.56.1 - the virtual machines ip address dhcp-range=192.168.56.10,192.168.56.15,255.255.255.0,12h ^^^ this gives your fake network a range of addresses, and a long timeout dhcp-option=3 ^^^ makes sure dnsmasq doesn't try to get your computer to route traffic through it dhcp-option=19,0 # option ip-forwarding off dhcp-option=44,192.168.56.1 # set netbios-over-TCP/IP nameserver(s) aka WINS server(s) dhcp-option=45,192.168.56.1 # netbios datagram distribution server dhcp-option=46,8 # netbios node type ^^^^helps with the file shareing dhcp-authoritative ^^^speeds up initialization cache-size=1500 no-negcache ^^^helps with lookups As an added bennie, with dnsmasq running, your lame windows box now has the full power of a linux domain name caching - so it will speed up your general internet usage. Then, in general, I follow the instructions at http://www.metod.si/multiple-php-versions-with-apache-2-fastcgi-phpfarm-on-ubuntu/ to setup and install apache, mysql, and php 5.2 and 5.3 - with modifications for the latest versions of each. In my virtual hosts configuration the following are important: VirtualDocumentRoot /var/www/%-3 %-3 basically means the third element of the domain name and is used to map domains to directories. So for me: http://testsite.53.osm - the files stored at /var/www/testsite - the THIRD element of the domain name will be used also using that directory is http://www.testsite.53.osm and http://testsite.52.home Wheras http://mydomain.53.osm will use the files located at /var/www/mydomain Our last bit of magic uses the virtual host configuration: ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost ServerName 52.osm ServerAlias *.52.osm VirtualDocumentRoot /var/www/%-3 DocumentRoot /var/www Options +Indexes +FollowSymLinks +MultiViews +ExecCGI AllowOverride All Order allow,deny allow from all AddHandler php-cgi .php Action php-cgi /php-fcgi/php-cgi-5.2 ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost ServerName 53.osm ServerAlias *.53.osm VirtualDocumentRoot /var/www/%-3 DocumentRoot /var/www Options +Indexes +FollowSymLinks +MultiViews +ExecCGI AllowOverride All Order allow,deny allow from all AddHandler php-cgi .php Action php-cgi /php-fcgi/php-cgi-5.3 These 2 configurations are almost identical, the only things that change are servername, serveralias, and action The servername has to be a full name, so I just use the php version I want with the domain tacked on[53.osm]. The serveralias can have a wildcard, so *.53.osm means that for ANY website you try to load which ends in .53.osm use this configuration. Lastly, the Action line tells apache which PHP FastCGI server to route the request to. So I have 2 different instances of PHP running, 5.2 and 5.3 and route accordingly. [Note, I share out the /var/www directory using SAMBA, and then map it on my windows box to drive letter W:] So now to edit files on my test website, garyamort, I edit the files located at w:/garyamort To see the website using PHP 5.2, I go to http://garyamort.52.osm To see the website using PHP 5.3 I go to http://garyamort.53.osm When dealing with oddities like a website which "suddenly" stops working, one cause is upgrading to PHP 5.3 CiviCRM for example has 2 versions, almost identical but one of them will run on PHP 5.2 and one runs on PHP 5.3 - so a CiviCRM website that suddenly stops working is likely to have a webhost who upgraded PHP from 5.2 to 5.3 It's a fairly simple solution - just copy the 5.3 version files over the old version files AND DELETE THE TEMPLATE CACHE DIRECTORIES - and it will start working again. If there is interest, I'm trying to put together a virtual box of all this pre-configured, so all you have to do is - with the exception of the part I put *** in front of, it would all be plug and play for most home networks. By the same token, if anyone knows a bit more about DHCP and DNS - I've had trouble with this part with windows...since both the home router and my virtual box broadcast a DNS server address, Windows will occassionally grab the wrong DNS address. The problem is, I don't want to ALWAYS run the virtualbox, so I want some way for the VM to override the DNS address, but still allow the client to use the other one. And for those of you who are really good with IPForwarding, I sometimes have to use remove VPN networks. So I have the VPN client on both my windows machine and the virtual machine running. It would be great if I could get the VPN client on the linux machine to dynamically update dnsmasq so that when it's running, the DHCP server will tell my windows box to route all traffic just for the remote network through it, and do some NAT routing on the virtualbox so the connection goes through there. -Gary From rainelemental at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 12:23:24 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 12:23:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> Message-ID: Interesting, what about performances? I guess is useful only for testing right? -- Federico Ulfo ? Certified Developer Google & PHP On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Gary Mort wrote: > I've been driven a little crazy lately with trying to develop for Joomla > with the following limitations: > > 1) Half the sites use PHP 5.2 and half of them use PHP 5.3 > 2) Sometimes I'm online and sometimes I'm offline > > > I kept coming back to "if only I was using linux, I could set things up > more easily".... Then it struck me that my desktop is a beefy system > memorywise[this solution is gonna take a lot of memory] - so I gave > VirtualBox a try. > http://www.virtualbox.org/ > > VirtualBox basically allows you to run different operating systems in a > virtual environment. > > For my current setup, I started with Ubuntu Server: > http://www.ubuntu.com/**download/server/download > > For the VirtualBox settings, choose fixed disk size - not dynamic. I use > 10GB, it eats up the full space but improves performance. My system has 8GB > of memory, so I give the system 2GB of ram, I'd suggest nothing under 1GB. > > in the network settings for the virtual machine, I setup TWO network > adapters. Adapter 1 is set to "bridged adapter", the name is selected from > my active adapter. This allows the system to connect through yours to the > internet. Adapter 2 is a "Host Only Adapter" - basically it's a "fake" > network adapter that allows your pc communicate with the VM and the VM > communicate with you. So if your doing this on a laptop, you can still work > even while offline. > > ****For the application settings[File-->Preferences] - go to the network > settings and configure the virtual network adapter settings. The important > bit here is to disable the dhcp server. > > When installing Ubuntu, setup adapter 1 for DHCP and adapter 2 as a static > IP address in a different network[most home networks are 192.168.1.0 or > 192.168.2.0 - so I give my internal only network the address 192.168.129.1, > netmask 255.255.255.0 - no default gateway!] > > Openssh is important to install for decent CLI access. > Samba should be installed to make it easy to access the files on the > server[just share out your web directory and then you can map the drive and > access it from your favorite web editor]. > Git, subversion, and mercurial should be installed since you need it at > some point > I always make sure to install wget > Now, the piece of magic that makes this all work, DNSMasq: > http://thekelleys.org.uk/**dnsmasq/doc.html > > DNSMasq allows you to run a DHCP server and DNS cache on the virtual > machine. So you setup the DHCP server to give out an IP address to your > system, and have it pass itself along as the DNS server[make VERY sure to > also specify a blank gateway/router so all your internet traffic goes to the > right place]. > The importan bits I've found: > interface=eth1 > interface=lo > ^^^these 2 lines makes sure that your system doesn't try to take over your > "real" network > address=/osm/192.168.56.1 > domain=osm > ^^^this sets up the "fake" domain osm and configures it so any domain > ending in .osm will be given the ip address 192.168.56.1 - the virtual > machines ip address > dhcp-range=192.168.56.10,192.**168.56.15,255.255.255.0,12h > ^^^ this gives your fake network a range of addresses, and a long timeout > dhcp-option=3 > ^^^ makes sure dnsmasq doesn't try to get your computer to route traffic > through it > dhcp-option=19,0 # option ip-forwarding off > dhcp-option=44,192.168.56.1 # set netbios-over-TCP/IP nameserver(s) aka > WINS server(s) > dhcp-option=45,192.168.56.1 # netbios datagram distribution server > dhcp-option=46,8 # netbios node type > ^^^^helps with the file shareing > dhcp-authoritative > ^^^speeds up initialization > cache-size=1500 > no-negcache > ^^^helps with lookups > > > As an added bennie, with dnsmasq running, your lame windows box now has the > full power of a linux domain name caching - so it will speed up your general > internet usage. > > Then, in general, I follow the instructions at > http://www.metod.si/multiple-**php-versions-with-apache-2-** > fastcgi-phpfarm-on-ubuntu/to setup and install apache, mysql, and php 5.2 and 5.3 - with modifications > for the latest versions of each. > > In my virtual hosts configuration the following are important: > VirtualDocumentRoot /var/www/%-3 > > %-3 basically means the third element of the domain name and is used to map > domains to directories. So for me: > http://testsite.53.osm - the files stored at /var/www/testsite - the THIRD > element of the domain name will be used > also using that directory is http://www.testsite.53.osm and > http://testsite.52.home > > Wheras http://mydomain.53.osm will use the files located at > /var/www/mydomain > > Our last bit of magic uses the virtual host configuration: > > ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost > ServerName 52.osm > ServerAlias *.52.osm > VirtualDocumentRoot /var/www/%-3 > DocumentRoot /var/www > > Options +Indexes +FollowSymLinks +MultiViews +ExecCGI > AllowOverride All > Order allow,deny > allow from all > AddHandler php-cgi .php > Action php-cgi /php-fcgi/php-cgi-5.2 > > > > > ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost > ServerName 53.osm > ServerAlias *.53.osm > VirtualDocumentRoot /var/www/%-3 > DocumentRoot /var/www > > Options +Indexes +FollowSymLinks +MultiViews +ExecCGI > AllowOverride All > Order allow,deny > allow from all > AddHandler php-cgi .php > Action php-cgi /php-fcgi/php-cgi-5.3 > > > > > These 2 configurations are almost identical, the only things that change > are servername, serveralias, and action > The servername has to be a full name, so I just use the php version I want > with the domain tacked on[53.osm]. > The serveralias can have a wildcard, so *.53.osm means that for ANY website > you try to load which ends in .53.osm use this configuration. > Lastly, the Action line tells apache which PHP FastCGI server to route the > request to. So I have 2 different instances of PHP running, 5.2 and 5.3 and > route accordingly. > > [Note, I share out the /var/www directory using SAMBA, and then map it on > my windows box to drive letter W:] > > So now to edit files on my test website, garyamort, I edit the files > located at w:/garyamort > To see the website using PHP 5.2, I go to http://garyamort.52.osm > To see the website using PHP 5.3 I go to http://garyamort.53.osm > > When dealing with oddities like a website which "suddenly" stops working, > one cause is upgrading to PHP 5.3 > CiviCRM for example has 2 versions, almost identical but one of them will > run on PHP 5.2 and one runs on PHP 5.3 - so a CiviCRM website that suddenly > stops working is likely to have a webhost who upgraded PHP from 5.2 to 5.3 > > It's a fairly simple solution - just copy the 5.3 version files over the > old version files AND DELETE THE TEMPLATE CACHE DIRECTORIES - and it will > start working again. > > If there is interest, I'm trying to put together a virtual box of all this > pre-configured, so all you have to do is - with the exception of the part I > put *** in front of, it would all be plug and play for most home networks. > > By the same token, if anyone knows a bit more about DHCP and DNS - I've had > trouble with this part with windows...since both the home router and my > virtual box broadcast a DNS server address, Windows will occassionally grab > the wrong DNS address. The problem is, I don't want to ALWAYS run the > virtualbox, so I want some way for the VM to override the DNS address, but > still allow the client to use the other one. > > And for those of you who are really good with IPForwarding, I sometimes > have to use remove VPN networks. So I have the VPN client on both my > windows machine and the virtual machine running. It would be great if I > could get the VPN client on the linux machine to dynamically update dnsmasq > so that when it's running, the DHCP server will tell my windows box to route > all traffic just for the remote network through it, and do some NAT routing > on the virtualbox so the connection goes through there. > > -Gary > ______________________________**_________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-**Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 12:26:42 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 12:26:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Gary Mort wrote: > VirtualBox basically allows you to run different operating systems in a > virtual environment. I switched to a similar rig after updating to a new laptop with faster CPU and more RAM. I see no performance hit from the guest OS, and I get to work on a "real" server even when there is no internet. One thing that you might consider adding to the guest OS is Samba so you can share the web directories out to your host OS and work on the files directly. Chris Snyder http://chxor.chxo.com/ From rolan at omnistep.com Fri Sep 2 12:42:04 2011 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 12:42:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E61075C.3060002@omnistep.com> What's your thought on using XAMPP instead of creating a bunch of virtual machines? You could run two instances of apache (php ver 5.2 & 5.3) on different ports and have both reference the same web directory and mysql. I have found XAMPP to be slow (umm, my laptop is a Dell D410 Pentium Mobile with 1GB RAM) but it's probably not as taxing on the resources as booting up two whole virtual Linux OS's within a Windows OS. ~Rolan On 9/2/2011 12:19 PM, Gary Mort wrote: > I've been driven a little crazy lately with trying to develop for > Joomla with the following limitations: > > 1) Half the sites use PHP 5.2 and half of them use PHP 5.3 > 2) Sometimes I'm online and sometimes I'm offline > > > I kept coming back to "if only I was using linux, I could set things > up more easily".... Then it struck me that my desktop is a beefy > system memorywise[this solution is gonna take a lot of memory] - so I > gave VirtualBox a try. > http://www.virtualbox.org/ > > VirtualBox basically allows you to run different operating systems in > a virtual environment. > > For my current setup, I started with Ubuntu Server: > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server/download > > From garyamort at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 13:12:43 2011 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 13:12:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E61075C.3060002@omnistep.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> <4E61075C.3060002@omnistep.com> Message-ID: <4E610E8B.7050008@gmail.com> On 9/2/2011 12:42 PM, Rolan Yang wrote: > What's your thought on using XAMPP instead of creating a bunch of > virtual machines? You could run two instances of apache (php ver 5.2 & > 5.3) on different ports and have both reference the same web directory > and mysql. I have found XAMPP to be slow (umm, my laptop is a Dell > D410 Pentium Mobile with 1GB RAM) but it's probably not as taxing on > the resources as booting up two whole virtual Linux OS's within a > Windows OS. I tried setting up XAMP and MAMP with multiple PHP versions and it was a nightmare because they load some DLL's for PHP that can only be loaded once. Separate directories didn't work too well either because of registry settings. And running both simultaneously dragged down the entire system. Note, I don't have 2 virtual machines. I use one virtual machine configured to use fastCGI for PHP so I can use 3 different versions of PHP at the same time[5.2, 5.3, 5.4]. It is the virtual machine definition, which is based on the domain name of the url, which determines which fastcgi server to use. If I go to http://mytest.53.osm it will use PHP 5.3, if I go to http://mytest.52.osm it will use 5.2 The real beauty, for me, is that it uses the same directory for either PHP version. They both read from the /var/www/mytest directory, it is just the PHP interpreter that is different. [in fact, one thing I'm thinking of doing is to setup some additional sub-options, basically run 3 or 4 fastcgi servers for PHP 5.3, mydomain.53.osm - straight PHP 5.3, display errors disabled mydomain.53e.osm - same PHP executable, different php.ini to enable display errors but don't show me notices, strict, or depreicated. mydomain.53s.osm - same PHP executable, different php.ini to show strict and deprecated mydomain.53a.osm - same PHP executable, different ini, show me all the errors As for speed, it is DAMN fast. Giving it 2G of memory is probably overkill. :-) And when the hurricane came through and I lost internet, everything was sitting on my local system with the same linux config from the server. From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 13:17:42 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 13:17:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E61075C.3060002@omnistep.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> <4E61075C.3060002@omnistep.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Rolan Yang wrote: > What's your thought on using XAMPP instead of creating a bunch of virtual > machines? XAMPP isn't ideal because it doesn't give you a server environment. There are a lot of subtle (and not so subtle) things that change when you move from one environment to another. Developing against a virtual machine with the same configuration as your production server gives you a lot more confidence that your code will work as intended in production. From yitzchak.schaffer at gmx.com Fri Sep 2 13:23:46 2011 From: yitzchak.schaffer at gmx.com (Yitzchak Schaffer) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 13:23:46 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E611122.4000407@gmx.com> On 09/02/2011 12:19, Gary Mort wrote: > I've been driven a little crazy lately with trying to develop for Joomla > with the following limitations: > > 1) Half the sites use PHP 5.2 and half of them use PHP 5.3 > 2) Sometimes I'm online and sometimes I'm offline > > > I kept coming back to "if only I was using linux, I could set things up > more easily".... Then it struck me that my desktop is a beefy system > memorywise[this solution is gonna take a lot of memory] - so I gave > VirtualBox a try. > http://www.virtualbox.org/ > I've been using VMware Server (free as in beer) to run Ubuntu VMs on my laptops for 1+ years. Works great for me. I have one VM for dev work, and another for staging, which is set up like production. Easy to create a fresh one to test restoration of backups. My previous laptop with 3GB of RAM could barely run dev (1GB) and staging (512MB) together, plus some essential apps like Thunderbird, browser, IDE. Which is pretty good, I think. I have a new Sandy Bridge laptop (Latitude, i5-2520M) with 4GB, and all is good now. The admin interface is a little slow, but the VM itself is quite fast IMO. Comparison: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/virtualization-smackdown-sun-xvm-virtualbox-16-vs-vmware-server-20-beta-2/8880 -- Yitzchak Schaffer Systems Manager Touro College Libraries 212.742.8770 ext. 2432 http://www.tourolib.org/ Access Problems? Contact systems.library at touro.edu From yitzchak.schaffer at gmx.com Fri Sep 2 13:27:08 2011 From: yitzchak.schaffer at gmx.com (Yitzchak Schaffer) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 13:27:08 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E611122.4000407@gmx.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> <4E611122.4000407@gmx.com> Message-ID: <4E6111EC.6040606@gmx.com> On 09/02/2011 13:23, Yitzchak Schaffer wrote: > I've been using VMware Server (free as in beer) to run Ubuntu VMs on my > laptops for 1+ years. Works great for me. > You can set up the networking to bridge to the host OS's connection, or to use a NAT subnet within the workstation. That is, your host workstation can communicate with the VM, but other machines cannot. I'm not a network guy, so sorry if my explanation is rubbish :) -- Yitzchak Schaffer Systems Manager Touro College Libraries 212.742.8770 ext. 2432 http://www.tourolib.org/ Access Problems? Contact systems.library at touro.edu From ajai at bitblit.net Fri Sep 2 13:46:59 2011 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 13:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E610E8B.7050008@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Sep 2011, Gary Mort wrote: > I tried setting up XAMP and MAMP with multiple PHP versions and it was a > nightmare because they load some DLL's for PHP that can only be loaded once. > > Separate directories didn't work too well either because of registry > settings. And running both simultaneously dragged down the entire system. Kind of points to Windows being a poor environment for this kind of development, no? BTW is this virtualization new to you guys? I was running VirtualBox back in 2006... -- Aj. From ramons at gmx.net Fri Sep 2 14:51:27 2011 From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 14:51:27 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E611122.4000407@gmx.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> <4E611122.4000407@gmx.com> Message-ID: <4E6125AF.5030000@gmx.net> On 9/2/2011 1:23 PM, Yitzchak Schaffer wrote: > I've been using VMware Server (free as in beer) to run Ubuntu VMs on my > laptops for 1+ years. Works great for me. > > I have one VM for dev work, and another for staging, which is set up like > production. Easy to create a fresh one to test restoration of backups. I used to use VMWare Server as well, but found the performance to be dismal. > My previous laptop with 3GB of RAM could barely run dev (1GB) and staging > (512MB) together, plus some essential apps like Thunderbird, browser, IDE. > Which is pretty good, I think. I have a new Sandy Bridge laptop (Latitude, > i5-2520M) with 4GB, and all is good now. > > The admin interface is a little slow, but the VM itself is quite fast IMO. I agree, the admin UI is a total dog, but the VMs are not too shabby, but compared to VMWare Player it is rather slow. VMWare Player used to be just that, a tool to play VMs. But while VMWare Server is no longer maintained a lot of changes were made to VMWare Player, including the option to create new VMs. Also, if there is a box available that can be dedicated to VMs then ESX and Xen as well as Linux KVM are options. As far as VirtualBox is concerned, I found it to be extremely crash happy. David From rolan at omnistep.com Fri Sep 2 15:48:51 2011 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 15:48:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E6125AF.5030000@gmx.net> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> <4E611122.4000407@gmx.com> <4E6125AF.5030000@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4E613323.7070801@omnistep.com> I've been using Centos Xen VM's on a dedicated development machine and it's been working well without any problems. When I'm done with the client's job, just shut down the instance and store away the disk image on a backup. Didn't do any good when we lost power for half a day after the hurricane though. On 9/2/2011 2:51 PM, David Krings wrote: > On 9/2/2011 1:23 PM, Yitzchak Schaffer wrote: >> I've been using VMware Server (free as in beer) to run Ubuntu VMs on my >> laptops for 1+ years. Works great for me. >> >> I have one VM for dev work, and another for staging, which is set up >> like >> production. Easy to create a fresh one to test restoration of backups. > > I used to use VMWare Server as well, but found the performance to be > dismal. > >> My previous laptop with 3GB of RAM could barely run dev (1GB) and >> staging >> (512MB) together, plus some essential apps like Thunderbird, browser, >> IDE. >> Which is pretty good, I think. I have a new Sandy Bridge laptop >> (Latitude, >> i5-2520M) with 4GB, and all is good now. >> >> The admin interface is a little slow, but the VM itself is quite fast >> IMO. > > I agree, the admin UI is a total dog, but the VMs are not too shabby, > but compared to VMWare Player it is rather slow. > > VMWare Player used to be just that, a tool to play VMs. But while > VMWare Server is no longer maintained a lot of changes were made to > VMWare Player, including the option to create new VMs. > > Also, if there is a box available that can be dedicated to VMs then > ESX and Xen as well as Linux KVM are options. > > As far as VirtualBox is concerned, I found it to be extremely crash > happy. > > > > David > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 16:14:04 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 16:14:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E613323.7070801@omnistep.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> <4E611122.4000407@gmx.com> <4E6125AF.5030000@gmx.net> <4E613323.7070801@omnistep.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Rolan Yang wrote: > Didn't do any good when we lost power for half a day after the hurricane > though. That's when it's time to use a whiteboard for development. Or an Etch-A-Sketch. From garyamort at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 16:22:19 2011 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 16:22:19 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <4E6111EC.6040606@gmx.com> References: <4E61022C.9000005@gmail.com> <4E611122.4000407@gmx.com> <4E6111EC.6040606@gmx.com> Message-ID: <4E613AFB.2000902@gmail.com> On 9/2/2011 1:27 PM, Yitzchak Schaffer wrote: > > You can set up the networking to bridge to the host OS's connection, > or to use a NAT subnet within the workstation. That is, your host > workstation can communicate with the VM, but other machines cannot. > I'm not a network guy, so sorry if my explanation is rubbish :) Nope, makes perfect sense. Question: can you do both? That's how I have my virtualBox setup. It gets 2 adapters. Adapter 1 is a bridge to the host OS's connection - and I don't run any servers on that interface. Adapter 2 is an internal adapter is an internal only virtual network. My host system has a virtual adapter connected to it, and every VM I run will also get a virtual adapter connected to it. Mainly this means I can have everything up and running regardless of the status of my "real" network as my virtual network is always running. From garyamort at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 16:44:06 2011 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 16:44:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E614016.9000405@gmail.com> On 9/2/2011 1:46 PM, Ajai Khattri wrote: > BTW is this virtualization new to you guys? I was running VirtualBox > back in 2006... -- Aj. It's fairly new for me. I've never had a system fast enough to really run it, and never felt like I needed it. Late last year when my laptop died, I decided I was doing most of my work from one place anyway, and I was playing around a lot with EC2, so I wanted a way to simulate a cloud at home without having to connect to the outside world or pay their fees. So I decided to get a desktop for the same money as a laptop, but make sure to get lots of hard drive space, memory, and 6 core CPU.... Original plan had been to put KVM on it and load windows into a Virtual OS... But the windows install disks that came with it won't install to anything but this hardware, so I'm going the other way[VirtualBox on Windows]. Still, I didn't want 6 different VM systems for each config, so being able to boil it all down to one system with virtual hosting makes my life sooo easy. And being able to use the linux box as a DNS server/cache speeds up regular internet usage tremendously. From jimmy.fountain at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 19:19:24 2011 From: jimmy.fountain at gmail.com (Jimmy Fountain) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 19:19:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6EFD7495-79CB-466C-98BC-49F4CC5340CD@gmail.com> Funny, I was looking into doing this today at my workplace. I was considering VMware but the player doesn't seem to support macs and we have developers on Win,Linux and Mac. I looked into paralells but the mac performace isn't great in my experience. Also, I'd like to package the same server image for all the devs. Has anyone had any experience doing this on a mac with virtualbox? Or Any orther vitualization that will run acceptably cross platform? Jimmy From ajai at bitblit.net Sat Sep 3 10:20:18 2011 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:20:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Virtualbox as a dev environment In-Reply-To: <6EFD7495-79CB-466C-98BC-49F4CC5340CD@gmail.com> References: <6EFD7495-79CB-466C-98BC-49F4CC5340CD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <08DEF297-A484-4758-8446-A2FF9E6419D9@bitblit.net> I've been using VirtualBox on Mac for years - no problems. Sent from my iPad On Sep 2, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Jimmy Fountain wrote: > Has anyone had any experience doing this on a mac with virtualbox? Or Any orther vitualization that will run acceptably cross platform? From rainelemental at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 12:33:49 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:33:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Image resizing/cropping on the fly Message-ID: Hi guys, I recently experienced an issue with the image resizing on the fly with GD library of PHP. I draw the image with: header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); $file = file_get_contents( $image ); echo $file; it works when the image is already cached, when I've to create the image, sometimes PHP change my header to Content-type: text/html, so the image won't load, and I'll get instead a list of Ascii. I fixed partially with a workaround, before do the *echo $file;* I check the headers, if they are changed, I remove all of them and set again, also this solution doesn't work always, I also tried to set header( "location: - same location -" ); this works sometimes, because the cache is already created but when there's many images sometimes the browser won't reindex it and give again a blank image. Do you have any idea of why does it? -- Federico Ulfo ? Certified Developer Google & PHP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 12:43:13 2011 From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:43:13 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Image resizing/cropping on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If any of the following causes an error and display_errors == 1, you'll get output and PHP will default to text/html: header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); $file = file_get_contents( $image ); If you have any whitespace prior to header(), you'll get output and PHP will default to text/html. You can avoid whitespace by never using an ending ?> tag. Jake On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Federico Ulfo wrote: > Hi guys, > > I recently experienced an issue with the image resizing on the fly with GD > library of PHP. > > I draw the image with: > header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); > header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); > $file = file_get_contents( $image ); > echo $file; > it works when the image is already cached, when I've to create the image, > sometimes PHP change my header to Content-type: text/html, so the image > won't load, and I'll get instead a list of Ascii. > > I fixed partially with a workaround, before do the *echo $file;* I check > the headers, if they are changed, I remove all of them and set again, also > this solution doesn't work always, I also tried to set header( "location: - > same location -" ); this works sometimes, because the cache is already > created but when there's many images sometimes the browser won't reindex it > and give again a blank image. > > Do you have any idea of why does it? > > > > > -- > Federico Ulfo ? > Certified Developer Google & PHP > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rainelemental at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 12:54:29 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:54:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Image resizing/cropping on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: True that, but the error happen randomly, the same image sometimes works sometimes no, so I think it might be some GD library bug -- Federico Ulfo ? Certified Developer Google & PHP On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Jake McGraw wrote: > If any of the following causes an error and display_errors == 1, you'll get > output and PHP will default to text/html: > > header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); > header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); > $file = file_get_contents( $image ); > > If you have any whitespace prior to header(), you'll get output and PHP > will default to text/html. > > You can avoid whitespace by never using an ending ?> tag. > > Jake > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Federico Ulfo wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> I recently experienced an issue with the image resizing on the fly with GD >> library of PHP. >> >> I draw the image with: >> header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); >> header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); >> $file = file_get_contents( $image ); >> echo $file; >> it works when the image is already cached, when I've to create the image, >> sometimes PHP change my header to Content-type: text/html, so the image >> won't load, and I'll get instead a list of Ascii. >> >> I fixed partially with a workaround, before do the *echo $file;* I check >> the headers, if they are changed, I remove all of them and set again, also >> this solution doesn't work always, I also tried to set header( "location: - >> same location -" ); this works sometimes, because the cache is already >> created but when there's many images sometimes the browser won't reindex it >> and give again a blank image. >> >> Do you have any idea of why does it? >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Federico Ulfo ? >> Certified Developer Google & PHP >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mallluhuct at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 12:56:06 2011 From: mallluhuct at gmail.com (Bulat Shakirzyanov) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 09:56:06 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Image resizing/cropping on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: make sure that there is no whitespace between the colon and the header name, so header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); must become header('Content-type: image/jpeg'); I am not sure how sensitive the browsers are to this, but that's how it should be formatted according to the HTTP spec. Additionally, make sure that your image is really and jpeg as if your file contents was for example PNG or GIF, the browser would try to process it as a JPEG There is always Imagine image manupulation library to help you with your resizing needs - https://github.com/avalanche123/Imagine Best, On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Jake McGraw wrote: > If any of the following causes an error and display_errors == 1, you'll get > output and PHP will default to text/html: > > header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); > header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); > $file = file_get_contents( $image ); > > If you have any whitespace prior to header(), you'll get output and PHP > will default to text/html. > > You can avoid whitespace by never using an ending ?> tag. > > Jake > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Federico Ulfo wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> I recently experienced an issue with the image resizing on the fly with GD >> library of PHP. >> >> I draw the image with: >> header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); >> header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); >> $file = file_get_contents( $image ); >> echo $file; >> it works when the image is already cached, when I've to create the image, >> sometimes PHP change my header to Content-type: text/html, so the image >> won't load, and I'll get instead a list of Ascii. >> >> I fixed partially with a workaround, before do the *echo $file;* I check >> the headers, if they are changed, I remove all of them and set again, also >> this solution doesn't work always, I also tried to set header( "location: - >> same location -" ); this works sometimes, because the cache is already >> created but when there's many images sometimes the browser won't reindex it >> and give again a blank image. >> >> Do you have any idea of why does it? >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Federico Ulfo ? >> Certified Developer Google & PHP >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -- *Bulat Shakirzyanov* | Software Alchemist *a: *about.me/avalanche123 *e:* mallluhuct at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 12:59:21 2011 From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:59:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Image resizing/cropping on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe try output buffering? Something is generating an error then... On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Federico Ulfo wrote: > True that, but the error happen randomly, the same image sometimes works > sometimes no, so I think it might be some GD library bug > > > > -- > Federico Ulfo ? > Certified Developer Google & PHP > > > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Jake McGraw wrote: > >> If any of the following causes an error and display_errors == 1, you'll >> get output and PHP will default to text/html: >> >> header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); >> header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); >> $file = file_get_contents( $image ); >> >> If you have any whitespace prior to header(), you'll get output and PHP >> will default to text/html. >> >> You can avoid whitespace by never using an ending ?> tag. >> >> Jake >> >> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Federico Ulfo wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> I recently experienced an issue with the image resizing on the fly with >>> GD library of PHP. >>> >>> I draw the image with: >>> header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); >>> header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); >>> $file = file_get_contents( $image ); >>> echo $file; >>> it works when the image is already cached, when I've to create the image, >>> sometimes PHP change my header to Content-type: text/html, so the image >>> won't load, and I'll get instead a list of Ascii. >>> >>> I fixed partially with a workaround, before do the *echo $file;* I check >>> the headers, if they are changed, I remove all of them and set again, also >>> this solution doesn't work always, I also tried to set header( "location: - >>> same location -" ); this works sometimes, because the cache is already >>> created but when there's many images sometimes the browser won't reindex it >>> and give again a blank image. >>> >>> Do you have any idea of why does it? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Federico Ulfo ? >>> Certified Developer Google & PHP >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>> >>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garyamort at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 13:25:04 2011 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:25:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running multiple mod_php extensions Message-ID: <4E67A8F0.3050708@gmail.com> One problem I've run into with using FastCGI for multiple PHP versions is that a number of open source projects depend on mod_php - and while it is possible to reconfigure fastcgi to provide the information that mod_php provided[for example, the script_name defaults to the script name of the fastcgi script, not the program being used], I really hate debugging that stuff. Looking at the ApacheHandler extension, it first seemed like it should be simple to change all occurences of the handler label mod_php to create multiple custom modules. IE mod_php_5_3_6 and mod_php_5_3_8... then both modules can be loaded and the handler assigned in the virtual host. This worked fine for assigning a custom handler function, but even with that if I load both handlers, Apache locks up. My guess is that the other extern declarations also need to have a custom declaration. I was wondering if anyone else has done this before and if so what your experience was? -Gary From rainelemental at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 14:07:49 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:07:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Image resizing/cropping on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Checked the spacing and try the output buffering, the problem of the header is into PHP, is not the browser that change the headers. The weirdest thing is that the script works fine, but randomly doesn't, that's why I can't really reproduce the problem, but I've to wait that happen, I might send you the source of it Thanks -- Federico Ulfo ? Certified Developer Google & PHP On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Jake McGraw wrote: > Maybe try output buffering? Something is generating an error then... > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Federico Ulfo wrote: > >> True that, but the error happen randomly, the same image sometimes works >> sometimes no, so I think it might be some GD library bug >> >> >> >> -- >> Federico Ulfo ? >> Certified Developer Google & PHP >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Jake McGraw wrote: >> >>> If any of the following causes an error and display_errors == 1, you'll >>> get output and PHP will default to text/html: >>> >>> header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); >>> header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); >>> $file = file_get_contents( $image ); >>> >>> If you have any whitespace prior to header(), you'll get output and PHP >>> will default to text/html. >>> >>> You can avoid whitespace by never using an ending ?> tag. >>> >>> Jake >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Federico Ulfo wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> >>>> I recently experienced an issue with the image resizing on the fly with >>>> GD library of PHP. >>>> >>>> I draw the image with: >>>> header('Content-type :image/jpeg'); >>>> header('Content-Length: ' . filesize( $image ) ); >>>> $file = file_get_contents( $image ); >>>> echo $file; >>>> it works when the image is already cached, when I've to create the >>>> image, sometimes PHP change my header to Content-type: text/html, so the >>>> image won't load, and I'll get instead a list of Ascii. >>>> >>>> I fixed partially with a workaround, before do the *echo $file;* I >>>> check the headers, if they are changed, I remove all of them and set again, >>>> also this solution doesn't work always, I also tried to set header( >>>> "location: - same location -" ); this works sometimes, because the cache is >>>> already created but when there's many images sometimes the browser won't >>>> reindex it and give again a blank image. >>>> >>>> Do you have any idea of why does it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Federico Ulfo ? >>>> Certified Developer Google & PHP >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>>> >>>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>> >>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Sep 8 08:07:37 2011 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 08:07:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Image resizing/cropping on the fly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110908120736.GA19376@panix.com> Hi Frederico: On Wed, Sep 07, 2011 at 02:07:49PM -0400, Federico Ulfo wrote: > The weirdest thing is that the script works fine, but randomly doesn't, Add an error handler (http://php.net/set_error_handler) that gathers the problem information and the images and sets them (and sends an email to you if you want). It's possible there are some images that have parameters you're not properly accounting for. Good luck, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Sep 8 08:12:05 2011 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 08:12:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running multiple mod_php extensions In-Reply-To: <4E67A8F0.3050708@gmail.com> References: <4E67A8F0.3050708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110908121205.GB19376@panix.com> Hi Gary: For a while I was running two different versions of PHP on two different ports (80 and 8080 for example). That was a _while_ ago (when PHP 5 was in alpha mode) on Windows. PHP 4 was on one port and PHP 5 on another. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From chsnyder at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 11:09:49 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:09:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running multiple mod_php extensions In-Reply-To: <4E67A8F0.3050708@gmail.com> References: <4E67A8F0.3050708@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Gary Mort wrote: > Looking at the ApacheHandler extension, it first seemed like it should be > simple to change all occurences of the handler label mod_php to create > multiple custom modules. ?IE mod_php_5_3_6 and mod_php_5_3_8... then both > modules can be loaded and the handler assigned in the virtual host. > > This worked fine for assigning a custom handler function, but even with that > if I load both handlers, Apache locks up. ?My guess is that the other extern > declarations also need to have a custom declaration. Stop trying to load both handlers in the same Apache process? You can specify the config file location on the command line as you start httpd. So use two (or more!) different configs that listen on different port numbers or virtual hostnames. Viola, different Apaches, each with its own version of php. From dan.horning at planetnoc.com Sun Sep 11 12:05:10 2011 From: dan.horning at planetnoc.com (Dan Horning) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:05:10 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Stripe.com - anyone want an invite? Message-ID: <4E6CDC36.7040403@planetnoc.com> I have a bunch! right now it's decent as a product and just needs some more apps that support it. drop me an email offlist if you want to get invited -- -- Dan Horning American Digital Services - Where you are only limited by imagination. dan.horning at planetnoc.com :: http://www.americandigitalservices.com 1-518-444-0213 x502 . toll free 1-800-863-3854 . fax 1-888-474-6133 PO Box 746, Troy, NY 12181 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dan_horning.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 277 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mkfmncom at gmail.com Sun Sep 11 12:06:03 2011 From: mkfmncom at gmail.com (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:06:03 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Stripe.com - anyone want an invite? In-Reply-To: <4E6CDC36.7040403@planetnoc.com> References: <4E6CDC36.7040403@planetnoc.com> Message-ID: Yes I do On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Dan Horning wrote: > I have a bunch! right now it's decent as a product and just needs some more > apps that support it. > drop me an email offlist if you want to get invited > > -- > -- > Dan Horning > > American Digital Services - Where you are only limited by imagination. > dan.horning at planetnoc.com :: http://www.**americandigitalservices.com > 1-518-444-0213 x502 . toll free 1-800-863-3854 . fax 1-888-474-6133 > PO Box 746, Troy, NY 12181 > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bmartin at mac.com Wed Sep 14 05:42:21 2011 From: bmartin at mac.com (Bruce Martin) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 05:42:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework Message-ID: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived top 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from most popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using the framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in the industry. Bruce Martin c. 917-727-8230 p. 570-421-0670 bmartin at mac.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwang at udfi.biz Wed Sep 14 09:08:02 2011 From: dwang at udfi.biz (David Wang) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:08:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> Message-ID: <25A19E34-F053-4D1F-8A44-0B7C8FC0F0EC@udfi.biz> every framework will have "flaws" that are unique to what you're trying to do. you should try to find one that is small and extensible enough that you can customize. here are some of the ones ive seen (in no particular order): zend symfony code igniter (php < 4), kohana (php 5+) yii -d On Sep 14, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Bruce Martin wrote: > This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived top 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from most popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using the framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in the industry. > > > Bruce Martin > c. 917-727-8230 > p. 570-421-0670 > bmartin at mac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com Wed Sep 14 10:06:31 2011 From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 10:06:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <25A19E34-F053-4D1F-8A44-0B7C8FC0F0EC@udfi.biz> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> <25A19E34-F053-4D1F-8A44-0B7C8FC0F0EC@udfi.biz> Message-ID: <56CFBB0E-1D80-412C-87B5-5CFABD7A3C3A@beaffinitive.com> > On Sep 14, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Bruce Martin wrote: >> This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived top 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from most popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using the framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in the industry. From what I've seen around the community, the most popular seem to be Zend Symfony Cake CodeIgniter I've also seen a number of people using Yii/Prado as well as Vork. Personally, I'm using Lithium. From rainelemental at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 11:57:59 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (federico ulfo) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:57:59 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <56CFBB0E-1D80-412C-87B5-5CFABD7A3C3A@beaffinitive.com> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> <25A19E34-F053-4D1F-8A44-0B7C8FC0F0EC@udfi.biz> <56CFBB0E-1D80-412C-87B5-5CFABD7A3C3A@beaffinitive.com> Message-ID: <815467227050072402@unknownmsgid> What's the best framework is one of the hot discussion on linked in. Ruby has Rails, PHP has many, Symfony2 it's a good one, mostly used in Europe, the community is nice, but the founder Fabien Potencier is not very friendly, before come to NYC, at the Italian PHP Day I asked him if they was hiring, he's answer was "we hire only people who speak French" ... Kohana is based on Code Igniter, a good choice but the community is way smaller than Code Igniter, here in NYC many agencies goes for Yii, Zend is one of the best solution, hope the PHP 5 version will improve the performances, which were the biggest issue of it. Keep in consideration also to use a CMF like Drupal, one of the best solution, many NYC agencies chose it, so is also a good skill to add in your resume, if you're searching for job. As last, I'd like to mention the RainFramework, it's easy, lightweight and fast, so if you searching for great performances it's worth a try Sent from my iPhone On Sep 14, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Rob Marscher wrote: >> On Sep 14, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Bruce Martin wrote: >>> This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived top 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from most popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using the framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in the industry. > >> From what I've seen around the community, the most popular seem to be > > Zend > Symfony > Cake > CodeIgniter > > I've also seen a number of people using Yii/Prado as well as Vork. > > Personally, I'm using Lithium. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com Wed Sep 14 13:08:47 2011 From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina Anderson) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 13:08:47 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <815467227050072402@unknownmsgid> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> <25A19E34-F053-4D1F-8A44-0B7C8FC0F0EC@udfi.biz> <56CFBB0E-1D80-412C-87B5-5CFABD7A3C3A@beaffinitive.com> <815467227050072402@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> A lean & mean AJAX-specific framework is SlimPHP. I've used it and can say that I was happy with it. The "big 5" are clearly: CakePHP, CodeIgniter, Drupal, Zend & Symfony. Maybe some agencies in NYC are using Yii but in all my years I've never run into one. I think that it's a good idea to get experience using as many different frameworks as you can so you become comfortable with MVC architectures in general, and know what the plusses/minuses are in different situations. In many cases the people doing the hiring are narrow thinkers who only want to hire someone with experience in "that specific framework" when the truth is, after a few years, they all start to seem pretty similar. It's best to stick whenever possible with the less bloated options, like Kohana, where performance issues are the primary consideration; although yes, there is little or no documentation available for Kohana. In fact I will be using Kohana for an upcoming project due to its leanness. I've dealt extensively with reengineering really horribly designed CakePHP codebases and it's amazing what I've seen. It was clearly advertised as a quick, easy way to hire really green programmers to build "complex" websites. It's not. The framework choice is always less important than having a well-designed database underlying your code. Happy coding, Kristina On 9/14/2011 11:57 AM, federico ulfo wrote: > What's the best framework is one of the hot discussion on linked in. > Ruby has Rails, PHP has many, Symfony2 it's a good one, mostly used in > Europe, the community is nice, but the founder Fabien Potencier is not > very friendly, before come to NYC, at the Italian PHP Day I asked him > if they was hiring, he's answer was "we hire only people who speak > French" ... > > Kohana is based on Code Igniter, a good choice but the community is > way smaller than Code Igniter, here in NYC many agencies goes for Yii, > Zend is one of the best solution, hope the PHP 5 version will improve > the performances, which were the biggest issue of it. > > Keep in consideration also to use a CMF like Drupal, one of the best > solution, many NYC agencies chose it, so is also a good skill to add > in your resume, if you're searching for job. > > As last, I'd like to mention the RainFramework, it's easy, lightweight > and fast, so if you searching for great performances it's worth a try > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 14, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Rob Marscher wrote: > >>> On Sep 14, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Bruce Martin wrote: >>>> This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived top 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from most popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using the framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in the industry. >>> From what I've seen around the community, the most popular seem to be >> Zend >> Symfony >> Cake >> CodeIgniter >> >> I've also seen a number of people using Yii/Prado as well as Vork. >> >> Personally, I'm using Lithium. >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > From dsteplight at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 14:20:54 2011 From: dsteplight at gmail.com (Darryle Steplight) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:20:54 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> <25A19E34-F053-4D1F-8A44-0B7C8FC0F0EC@udfi.biz> <56CFBB0E-1D80-412C-87B5-5CFABD7A3C3A@beaffinitive.com> <815467227050072402@unknownmsgid> <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: "The framework choice is always less important than having a well-designed database underlying your code." <- #sotrue On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Kristina Anderson wrote: > A lean & mean AJAX-specific framework is SlimPHP. ?I've used it and can say > that I was happy with it. > > The "big 5" are clearly: ?CakePHP, CodeIgniter, Drupal, Zend & Symfony. > ?Maybe some agencies in NYC are using Yii but in all my years I've never run > into one. > > I think that it's a good idea to get experience using as many different > frameworks as you can so you become comfortable with MVC architectures in > general, and know what the plusses/minuses are in different situations. ?In > many cases the people doing the hiring are narrow thinkers who only want to > hire someone with experience in "that specific framework" when the truth is, > after a few years, they all start to seem pretty similar. > > It's best to stick whenever possible with the less bloated options, like > Kohana, where performance issues are the primary consideration; although > yes, there is little or no documentation available for Kohana. ?In fact I > will be using Kohana for an upcoming project due to its leanness. > > I've dealt extensively with reengineering really horribly designed CakePHP > codebases and it's amazing what I've seen. ?It was clearly advertised as a > quick, easy way to hire really green programmers to build "complex" > websites. ?It's not. > > The framework choice is always less important than having a well-designed > database underlying your code. > > Happy coding, > > Kristina > > > > On 9/14/2011 11:57 AM, federico ulfo wrote: >> >> What's the best framework is one of the hot discussion on linked in. >> Ruby has Rails, PHP has many, Symfony2 it's a good one, mostly used in >> Europe, the community is nice, but the founder Fabien Potencier is not >> very friendly, before come to NYC, at the Italian PHP Day I asked him >> if they was hiring, he's answer was "we hire only people who speak >> French" ... >> >> Kohana is based on Code Igniter, a good choice but the community is >> way smaller than Code Igniter, here in NYC many agencies goes for Yii, >> Zend is one of the best solution, hope the PHP 5 version will improve >> the performances, which were the biggest issue of it. >> >> Keep in consideration also to use a CMF like Drupal, one of the best >> solution, many NYC agencies chose it, so is also a good skill to add >> in your resume, if you're searching for job. >> >> As last, I'd like to mention the RainFramework, it's easy, lightweight >> and fast, so if you searching for great performances it's worth a try >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 14, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Rob Marscher >> ?wrote: >> >>>> On Sep 14, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Bruce Martin wrote: >>>>> >>>>> This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived >>>>> top 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from >>>>> most popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using >>>>> the framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with >>>>> CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. >>>>> So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in >>>>> the industry. >>>> >>>> ?From what I've seen around the community, the most popular seem to be >>> >>> Zend >>> Symfony >>> Cake >>> CodeIgniter >>> >>> I've also seen a number of people using Yii/Prado as well as Vork. >>> >>> Personally, I'm using Lithium. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>> >>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -- ---------------------------------------------- "May the Source be with you." From mkfmncom at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 14:50:59 2011 From: mkfmncom at gmail.com (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:50:59 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> <25A19E34-F053-4D1F-8A44-0B7C8FC0F0EC@udfi.biz> <56CFBB0E-1D80-412C-87B5-5CFABD7A3C3A@beaffinitive.com> <815467227050072402@unknownmsgid> <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: yes On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Darryle Steplight wrote: > "The framework choice is always less important than having a > well-designed database underlying your code." <- #sotrue > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Kristina Anderson > wrote: > > A lean & mean AJAX-specific framework is SlimPHP. I've used it and can > say > > that I was happy with it. > > > > The "big 5" are clearly: CakePHP, CodeIgniter, Drupal, Zend & Symfony. > > Maybe some agencies in NYC are using Yii but in all my years I've never > run > > into one. > > > > I think that it's a good idea to get experience using as many different > > frameworks as you can so you become comfortable with MVC architectures in > > general, and know what the plusses/minuses are in different situations. > In > > many cases the people doing the hiring are narrow thinkers who only want > to > > hire someone with experience in "that specific framework" when the truth > is, > > after a few years, they all start to seem pretty similar. > > > > It's best to stick whenever possible with the less bloated options, like > > Kohana, where performance issues are the primary consideration; although > > yes, there is little or no documentation available for Kohana. In fact I > > will be using Kohana for an upcoming project due to its leanness. > > > > I've dealt extensively with reengineering really horribly designed > CakePHP > > codebases and it's amazing what I've seen. It was clearly advertised as > a > > quick, easy way to hire really green programmers to build "complex" > > websites. It's not. > > > > The framework choice is always less important than having a well-designed > > database underlying your code. > > > > Happy coding, > > > > Kristina > > > > > > > > On 9/14/2011 11:57 AM, federico ulfo wrote: > >> > >> What's the best framework is one of the hot discussion on linked in. > >> Ruby has Rails, PHP has many, Symfony2 it's a good one, mostly used in > >> Europe, the community is nice, but the founder Fabien Potencier is not > >> very friendly, before come to NYC, at the Italian PHP Day I asked him > >> if they was hiring, he's answer was "we hire only people who speak > >> French" ... > >> > >> Kohana is based on Code Igniter, a good choice but the community is > >> way smaller than Code Igniter, here in NYC many agencies goes for Yii, > >> Zend is one of the best solution, hope the PHP 5 version will improve > >> the performances, which were the biggest issue of it. > >> > >> Keep in consideration also to use a CMF like Drupal, one of the best > >> solution, many NYC agencies chose it, so is also a good skill to add > >> in your resume, if you're searching for job. > >> > >> As last, I'd like to mention the RainFramework, it's easy, lightweight > >> and fast, so if you searching for great performances it's worth a try > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Sep 14, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Rob Marscher > >> wrote: > >> > >>>> On Sep 14, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Bruce Martin wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived > >>>>> top 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order > from > >>>>> most popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with > experience using > >>>>> the framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working > with > >>>>> CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws > with it. > >>>>> So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of > flow in > >>>>> the industry. > >>>> > >>>> From what I've seen around the community, the most popular seem to be > >>> > >>> Zend > >>> Symfony > >>> Cake > >>> CodeIgniter > >>> > >>> I've also seen a number of people using Yii/Prado as well as Vork. > >>> > >>> Personally, I'm using Lithium. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >>> > >>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >> > >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------- > "May the Source be with you." > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Sep 14 15:40:28 2011 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Kristina Anderson wrote: > The framework choice is always less important than having a > well-designed database underlying your code. One could argue, that there's no replacement for sound engineering and that the greatest framework is your own brain. Its important not to get caught up in any hype surrounding one tool or another. There's that (now classic) post from the CD Baby guy who was all set to jump into Rails but ultimately rewrote his own PHP framework instead. As he says in the post: "But the main reason that any programmer learning any new language thinks the new language is SO much better than the old one is because he's a better programmer now!" http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html -- Aj. From jessesanford at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 16:44:20 2011 From: jessesanford at gmail.com (Jesse Sanford) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:44:20 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: References: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: +1...for that AJ But if you are going to use someone else's code. make sure. Make for damn sure... it has a wealth of CURRENT documentation and a lively community. My mantra... (a.k.a. rant) I don't use software that tries to solve all problems. The worst software grows out of goal-less development. Look for something with clear, concise, decisive design decisions. The *nix moto... do one thing and do it right. LESS CODE IS BETTER! A good example that will hit close to home for some and I hope won't start a flame war is Drupal. Until recently it was a bloated mess. It has started to clean up it's act come version 7 but in my opinion it still does WAY too much for it's own good. I don't use software if the documentation is not up to snuff. Don't take api/(insert language here)doc as enough. When you are getting up to speed in a new technology you need much more handholding or face hair loss. You need cookbooks, working examples, CURRENT api and method signatures. etc. I dont use software if it hasn't already been put into production some very visible places. Use something you know works. Why be the first on the block to see if X scales? You know how I know what scales. I have seen larger stacks use it in the past. Safe bets are best. I dont use software if it hasn't had at least 2 minor releases. Unless you need a specific feature of a bleeding edge release just use what you know will work! How do you know... because it's been around for a while and people have used it and tested it. I dont use software if it has no community involvement. (Don't underestimate other peoples schedules... think about how busy you get during your average work year. You may just have a project dropped from under you. One core developer on an open source project is not enough to bet the house on.) I prefer my software to come with unit/functional tests. If nothing else they can be used as examples. But the piece of mind you get as a developer if you know what you are using has been tested thoroughly is worth more than the most amazing untested functionality you can dream of. Just think of all the times you banged your head on your desk trying to figure out why something isn't doing what the documentation said it was supposed to do. Only to find out yes... it is a bug in the library you are using! I hate using software. Less is better period. If you can get away without using an extra daemon then do it. Don't add 5 more caching layers and 3 more database abstractions just because they are the new cool acronyms. It's only going to make your code less maintainable. Over architecting and early optimization are what keep projects from ever getting to launch. The same thing goes for languages. Don't write your services in more than 1 language if you can avoid it. If you are writing webapps from the ground up limit yourself to one backend and one frontend language. Don't add caching until you need it! The same thing goes for sharding of your database schemas! KISS... across your entire stack. Not just your code. Whew... sorry about that. Back to the topic at hand. Symfony 1.X is probably still more widely used than Symfony 2.x and both are good. Although 2.x is a far more abstracted and multipurpose framework 1.x is still great for the usual 3 tier webapps. Both are very well documented. CodeIgniter is a really great lightweight framework. If you are looking for something straight forward, well documented and full of examples this is also a good choice. Zend had so much steam early on and then where did it go? I feel like they have been sleeping. Yii has been around for a while and same with Kohana but both have less numbers than the above. I have to revisit cake. I haven't used it in a while but for a while it was seriously suffering on the documentation front. If I was to pick a framework to run with on a new project I would probably pick Symfony 2 because of it's forward thinking architecture. It can seem overly complex so be warned. If you haven't already heard of things like dependency injection or service containers you may feel a little lost. The good thing is that there is a bunch of documentation to get you up to speed. Also it makes use of useful things like ESI and... HTTP... who knew! Cheers, Jesse On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Ajai Khattri wrote: > On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Kristina Anderson wrote: > >> The framework choice is always less important than having a >> well-designed database underlying your code. > > One could argue, that there's no replacement for sound engineering and > that the greatest framework is your own brain. > > Its important not to get caught up in any hype surrounding one tool > or another. There's that (now classic) post from the CD Baby guy who was > all set to jump into Rails but ultimately rewrote his own PHP framework > instead. > > As he says in the post: "But the main reason that any programmer learning > any new language thinks the new language is SO much better than the old > one is because he's a better programmer now!" > > http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html > > > -- > Aj. > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Sep 14 16:52:16 2011 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:52:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: References: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4E711400.1000502@bitblit.net> On 9/14/11 4:44 PM, Jesse Sanford wrote: > Symfony 1.X is probably still more widely used than Symfony 2.x and > both are good. Although 2.x is a far more abstracted and multipurpose > framework 1.x is still great for the usual 3 tier webapps. Both are > very well documented. Its interesting to read about how componentized Symfony 2.x is - Drupal are planning to use some of the components in a future release. > If I was to pick a framework to run with on a new project I would > probably pick Symfony 2 because of it's forward thinking architecture. > It can seem overly complex so be warned. If you haven't already heard > of things like dependency injection or service containers you may feel > a little lost. The good thing is that there is a bunch of > documentation to get you up to speed. Also it makes use of useful > things like ESI and... HTTP... who knew! Or just pick one or two components out of Symfony 2.x and build your apps around it... -- Aj. From rainelemental at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 16:53:58 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (federico ulfo) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:53:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: References: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: <-8042454426641652245@unknownmsgid> http://www.devshed.com/c/a/PHP/7-PHP-Frameworks-Tested-For-Speed/2/ a small bench, anyway I agree, a good designed DB is more important, also performance thanks to the edge caching (squid, varnish ...) and browser caching are no more a critical issue If you have to change framework for your new projects keep also in consideration Ruby, clean and awesome! Sent from my iPhone On Sep 14, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Jesse Sanford wrote: > +1...for that AJ > > But if you are going to use someone else's code. make sure. Make for > damn sure... it has a wealth of CURRENT documentation and a lively > community. > > My mantra... (a.k.a. rant) > > I don't use software that tries to solve all problems. The worst > software grows out of goal-less development. Look for something with > clear, concise, decisive design decisions. The *nix moto... do one > thing and do it right. LESS CODE IS BETTER! A good example that will > hit close to home for some and I hope won't start a flame war is > Drupal. Until recently it was a bloated mess. It has started to clean > up it's act come version 7 but in my opinion it still does WAY too > much for it's own good. > > I don't use software if the documentation is not up to snuff. Don't > take api/(insert language here)doc as enough. When you are getting up > to speed in a new technology you need much more handholding or face > hair loss. You need cookbooks, working examples, CURRENT api and > method signatures. etc. > > I dont use software if it hasn't already been put into production some > very visible places. Use something you know works. Why be the first on > the block to see if X scales? You know how I know what scales. I have > seen larger stacks use it in the past. Safe bets are best. > > I dont use software if it hasn't had at least 2 minor releases. Unless > you need a specific feature of a bleeding edge release just use what > you know will work! How do you know... because it's been around for a > while and people have used it and tested it. > > I dont use software if it has no community involvement. (Don't > underestimate other peoples schedules... think about how busy you get > during your average work year. You may just have a project dropped > from under you. One core developer on an open source project is not > enough to bet the house on.) > > I prefer my software to come with unit/functional tests. If nothing > else they can be used as examples. But the piece of mind you get as a > developer if you know what you are using has been tested thoroughly is > worth more than the most amazing untested functionality you can dream > of. Just think of all the times you banged your head on your desk > trying to figure out why something isn't doing what the documentation > said it was supposed to do. Only to find out yes... it is a bug in the > library you are using! > > I hate using software. Less is better period. If you can get away > without using an extra daemon then do it. Don't add 5 more caching > layers and 3 more database abstractions just because they are the new > cool acronyms. It's only going to make your code less maintainable. > Over architecting and early optimization are what keep projects from > ever getting to launch. > > The same thing goes for languages. Don't write your services in more > than 1 language if you can avoid it. If you are writing webapps from > the ground up limit yourself to one backend and one frontend language. > > Don't add caching until you need it! The same thing goes for sharding > of your database schemas! KISS... across your entire stack. Not just > your code. > > Whew... sorry about that. Back to the topic at hand. > > Symfony 1.X is probably still more widely used than Symfony 2.x and > both are good. Although 2.x is a far more abstracted and multipurpose > framework 1.x is still great for the usual 3 tier webapps. Both are > very well documented. > > CodeIgniter is a really great lightweight framework. If you are > looking for something straight forward, well documented and full of > examples this is also a good choice. > > Zend had so much steam early on and then where did it go? I feel like > they have been sleeping. > > Yii has been around for a while and same with Kohana but both have > less numbers than the above. > > I have to revisit cake. I haven't used it in a while but for a while > it was seriously suffering on the documentation front. > > If I was to pick a framework to run with on a new project I would > probably pick Symfony 2 because of it's forward thinking architecture. > It can seem overly complex so be warned. If you haven't already heard > of things like dependency injection or service containers you may feel > a little lost. The good thing is that there is a bunch of > documentation to get you up to speed. Also it makes use of useful > things like ESI and... HTTP... who knew! > > Cheers, > Jesse > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Ajai Khattri wrote: >> On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Kristina Anderson wrote: >> >>> The framework choice is always less important than having a >>> well-designed database underlying your code. >> >> One could argue, that there's no replacement for sound engineering and >> that the greatest framework is your own brain. >> >> Its important not to get caught up in any hype surrounding one tool >> or another. There's that (now classic) post from the CD Baby guy who was >> all set to jump into Rails but ultimately rewrote his own PHP framework >> instead. >> >> As he says in the post: "But the main reason that any programmer learning >> any new language thinks the new language is SO much better than the old >> one is because he's a better programmer now!" >> >> http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html >> >> >> -- >> Aj. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Sep 14 17:09:38 2011 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:09:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <-8042454426641652245@unknownmsgid> References: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> <-8042454426641652245@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4E711812.5060809@bitblit.net> On 9/14/11 4:53 PM, federico ulfo wrote: > http://www.devshed.com/c/a/PHP/7-PHP-Frameworks-Tested-For-Speed/2/ I think some of these comparisons are kind of useless. Lightweight frameworks are light because they might have fewer features, less flexibility, etc etc. In some cases, you may end up writing more application code to make up for a light framework (which also means the framework of choice is not matched to your problem domain very well). -- Aj. From rainelemental at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 22:27:00 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:27:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <4E711812.5060809@bitblit.net> References: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> <-8042454426641652245@unknownmsgid> <4E711812.5060809@bitblit.net> Message-ID: DB, I/O and streaming are the bottle neck, that's why that benchmark is not very useful, the reason why I posted it is because there are mentioned a few framework, which are the same we're mentioning in this emails, and if you search on Google you'll find many more article that will tell you to use Code Igniter, Cake, Symfony, Zend, Yii... In that list they are all good, so just give a look to them and chose your favorite. On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Ajai Khattri wrote: > On 9/14/11 4:53 PM, federico ulfo wrote: > > http://www.devshed.com/c/a/**PHP/7-PHP-Frameworks-Tested-**For-Speed/2/ >> > > I think some of these comparisons are kind of useless. Lightweight > frameworks are light because they might have fewer features, less > flexibility, etc etc. In some cases, you may end up writing more application > code to make up for a light framework (which also means the framework of > choice is not matched to your problem domain very well). > > > > -- > Aj. > ______________________________**_________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-**Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ioplex at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 23:50:06 2011 From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:50:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: References: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Jesse Sanford wrote: > Zend had so much steam early on and then where did it go? I feel like > they have been sleeping. Quite the opposite. Zend Framework started accepting contributions from anyone and everyone and now, even though they have done a good job of minimizing dependencies between modules, there is a lot of crap in ZF. I also think most of these "frameworks" are just bloated. Maintainers really need to understand how to suppress feature-creep already. Or better still just give each contributor their own branch and encourage people to steal from each other. That way the good stuff will make it into trunk, the crap won't and the unused stuff will be removed. Mike -- Michael B Allen PHP Active Directory Integration http://www.ioplex.com/plexcel.html From suzerain at suzerain.com Thu Sep 15 01:25:54 2011 From: suzerain at suzerain.com (Marc Vose) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:25:54 +0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> Message-ID: <0D2F4DF1-B2EA-4043-AA77-EF8666267137@suzerain.com> Hi there: I'm strongly considering migrating some future projects to MODX Revolution. It sort of sits in that space between a low-level framework, and something 'polished' and not-as-easily-extensible like ExpressionEngine. It tries to do core functionality + content management, but not output, which is what hits the sweet spot for at least some of our work. http://modx.com/ Sorry, it's not 5?and as for 'popular', I'm not sure if it will help from the standpoint of marketing your services. Cheers, Marc Le Sep 14, 2011 ? 5:42 PM, Bruce Martin a ?crit : > This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived top 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from most popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using the framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in the industry. > > > Bruce Martin > c. 917-727-8230 > p. 570-421-0670 > bmartin at mac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From klederson at klederson.com Thu Sep 15 08:58:30 2011 From: klederson at klederson.com (Klederson Bueno) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:58:30 -0300 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <0D2F4DF1-B2EA-4043-AA77-EF8666267137@suzerain.com> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> <0D2F4DF1-B2EA-4043-AA77-EF8666267137@suzerain.com> Message-ID: Have you guys checked out PhpBURN? It have a REALLY strong and powerfull ORM/DATAMAPPER/DAO it's model layer is very powerful with some cool features such as: * Relationships ( with clauses... it means you can put limit, order, where, like and other things into relationships call before call them to avoid unecessary data and server load ) * Vertical relationships ( a Model can extends another working as only one but having different tables transparently to the developer ) * Relationship between differente databases and DBMS ( you can extend or have a relationship between a mysql and a mssql for exaple or vice versa ) * Easy to learn and very plug and play. If you guys want i can talk about it a little and i'm avaliable to help . www.phpburn.com Regards, -- /** * *PHP Architect/Consultant* * *@author* Klederson Bueno * *@see* http://www.phpburn.com * *@see* http://github.com/klederson * *@see* http://www.twitter.com/klederson * *@about *http://about.me/klederson */ On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 2:25 AM, Marc Vose wrote: > Hi there: > > I'm strongly considering migrating some future projects to MODX Revolution. > It sort of sits in that space between a low-level framework, and something > 'polished' and not-as-easily-extensible like ExpressionEngine. It tries to > do core functionality + content management, but not output, which is what > hits the sweet spot for at least some of our work. > > http://modx.com/ > > Sorry, it's not 5?and as for 'popular', I'm not sure if it will help from > the standpoint of marketing your services. > > Cheers, > Marc > > > Le Sep 14, 2011 ? 5:42 PM, Bruce Martin a ?crit : > > > This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived top > 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from most > popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using the > framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with > CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. > So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in > the industry. > > > > > > Bruce Martin > > c. 917-727-8230 > > p. 570-421-0670 > > bmartin at mac.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Sep 15 09:43:39 2011 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Federico Ulfo wrote: > DB, I/O and streaming are the bottle neck, that's why that benchmark is not > very useful But also because it looks like their configurations weren't optimized in any way. For example, noone would run Symfony without APC... -- Aj. From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Sep 15 09:45:28 2011 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Michael B Allen wrote: > Quite the opposite. Zend Framework started accepting contributions > from anyone and everyone and now, even though they have done a good > job of minimizing dependencies between modules, there is a lot of crap > in ZF. I also think most of these "frameworks" are just bloated. Of course, Zend is really just a library... > Maintainers really need to understand how to suppress feature-creep > already. Or you componentize and make it easy to switch off or remove uneeded components (a la Symfony2). -- Aj. From ereyes at totalcreations.com Thu Sep 15 11:23:25 2011 From: ereyes at totalcreations.com (Edgar Reyes) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:23:25 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <0D2F4DF1-B2EA-4043-AA77-EF8666267137@suzerain.com> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> <0D2F4DF1-B2EA-4043-AA77-EF8666267137@suzerain.com> Message-ID: <5161B21E535F4DC282991D5C238E4888@MainTop> I've used Modx on a few projects and have had no complaints.. simple to use gives my clients a simple way to edit their website, so it has worked out for me so far. ER -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Marc Vose Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:26 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework Hi there: I'm strongly considering migrating some future projects to MODX Revolution. It sort of sits in that space between a low-level framework, and something 'polished' and not-as-easily-extensible like ExpressionEngine. It tries to do core functionality + content management, but not output, which is what hits the sweet spot for at least some of our work. http://modx.com/ Sorry, it's not 5 and as for 'popular', I'm not sure if it will help from the standpoint of marketing your services. Cheers, Marc Le Sep 14, 2011 ? 5:42 PM, Bruce Martin a ?crit : > This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived top 5 PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from most popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using the framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in the industry. > > > Bruce Martin > c. 917-727-8230 > p. 570-421-0670 > bmartin at mac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation _______________________________________________ New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From david at davidmintz.org Thu Sep 22 14:59:07 2011 From: david at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:59:07 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <5161B21E535F4DC282991D5C238E4888@MainTop> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> <0D2F4DF1-B2EA-4043-AA77-EF8666267137@suzerain.com> <5161B21E535F4DC282991D5C238E4888@MainTop> Message-ID: Why would you consider Drupal a framework rather than a CMS? For that matter, how would you define "framework?" -- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ It ain't over: http://www.healthcare-now.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rainelemental at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 15:24:28 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:24:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> <0D2F4DF1-B2EA-4043-AA77-EF8666267137@suzerain.com> <5161B21E535F4DC282991D5C238E4888@MainTop> Message-ID: Drupal is considered as CMF A PHP framework is a set of tools with a common API that helps to create web applications PHP framework list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Php_framework#PHP -- Federico Ulfo ? Certified Developer Google & PHP On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:59 PM, David Mintz wrote: > Why would you consider Drupal a framework rather than a CMS? > > For that matter, how would you define "framework?" > > -- > David Mintz > http://davidmintz.org/ > It ain't over: > http://www.healthcare-now.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justin at justinhileman.info Thu Sep 22 17:40:54 2011 From: justin at justinhileman.info (justin) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:40:54 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> Message-ID: You're better off asking one of the following questions: * What are the top five PHP 5.3 frameworks? * What are the top five PHP 5 frameworks? Because it's really hard to compare current-gen frameworks with last-gen frameworks. Additionally, "most common" doesn't mean "awesomest" or "easiest to use" or even "what a reasonable person would choose to start their *next* project with". -- justin On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 2:42 AM, Bruce Martin wrote: > This may be controversial but I would like to know what the conceived top 5 > PHP frameworks are. You don't have to list why, just an order from most > popular, i.e. there is more demand for developers with experience using the > framework. The reason I ask, is I have just spent a year working with > CakePhp, which has it's benefits, but I have also seem some flaws with it. > So when I'm ready to move on, I would like to go in the direction of flow in > the industry. > > Bruce Martin > c. 917-727-8230 > p. 570-421-0670 > bmartin at mac.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -- http://justinhileman.com From chsnyder at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 18:44:06 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:44:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: References: <701DC300-0A6E-43EB-9D3A-256E3570B4EA@mac.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 5:40 PM, justin wrote: > Additionally, "most common" doesn't mean "awesomest" or "easiest to > use" or even "what a reasonable person would choose to start their > *next* project with". > Oh, but at least we can all agree on jQuery, right? From david at davidmintz.org Fri Sep 23 09:54:43 2011 From: david at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:54:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization Message-ID: I'm trying to require users to input proper names with capitalization that conforms to convention. So, you can't go e. e. cummings on me, and you can't be JOHN SOMEBODY either. And you can't have your caps lock on and enter jOHN sOMEBODY. That much is pretty easy, but I am finding the more subtle cases pretty hard. So far, I have /\b[a-z][A-Z]+|\b[A-Z]{2,}+|^[a-z ]+$/ to test against (false is good). This works on all the cases I have tested except "cuMmings," which gets by. But I am thinking, maybe enough is enough; you can't control everything. Just wondering if anyone has tackled this before or has any thoughts. btw this is on top of other whitelist-style validation. -- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ It ain't over: http://www.healthcare-now.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuck.reeves at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 09:57:59 2011 From: chuck.reeves at gmail.com (Chuck Reeves) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:57:59 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4e7c9065.5171e00a.25dd.ffffd3ce@mx.google.com> Just curious, how does Ronald McDonald supposed to fit in this convention? Chuck Reeves President 631.374.0772 MANCHUCK | www.manchuck.com From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of David Mintz Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 9:55 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization I'm trying to require users to input proper names with capitalization that conforms to convention. So, you can't go e. e. cummings on me, and you can't be JOHN SOMEBODY either. And you can't have your caps lock on and enter jOHN sOMEBODY. That much is pretty easy, but I am finding the more subtle cases pretty hard. So far, I have /\b[a-z][A-Z]+|\b[A-Z]{2,}+|^[a-z ]+$/ to test against (false is good). This works on all the cases I have tested except "cuMmings," which gets by. But I am thinking, maybe enough is enough; you can't control everything. Just wondering if anyone has tackled this before or has any thoughts. btw this is on top of other whitelist-style validation. -- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ It ain't over: http://www.healthcare-now.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 09:58:15 2011 From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:58:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: $proper_name = ucwords(strtolower($fullname)); Of course this messes up names like mine (Jake McGraw becomes Jake Mcgraw), but, I'm used to it :( jake On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:54 AM, David Mintz wrote: > > I'm trying to require users to input proper names with capitalization that > conforms to convention. So, you can't go e. e. cummings on me, and you can't > be JOHN SOMEBODY either. And you can't have your caps lock on and enter jOHN > sOMEBODY. That much is pretty easy, but I am finding the more subtle cases > pretty hard. > > So far, I have > > /\b[a-z][A-Z]+|\b[A-Z]{2,}+|^[a-z ]+$/ > > to test against (false is good). This works on all the cases I have tested > except "cuMmings," which gets by. But I am thinking, maybe enough is enough; > you can't control everything. > > Just wondering if anyone has tackled this before or has any thoughts. > > btw this is on top of other whitelist-style validation. > > -- > David Mintz > http://davidmintz.org/ > It ain't over: > http://www.healthcare-now.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From papillion at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 10:14:15 2011 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:14:15 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why is there no 'PHP Foundation'? Message-ID: <4E7C9437.6060708@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hi Everyone, So I've been learning a bit of Python and I already know Perl. One of the strongest non-language related aspects of both languages is that they both have a strong and active foundation behind them working towards furthering adoption and acceptance of the languages within the enterprise and other sectors. PHP has Zend. While I understand that Zend does an amazing job developing PHP and solutions around the language, I'm wondering why there is no non-profit foundation working to further the goals of the language in non-commercial ways. Personally, I think being backed by a non-profit interest could really benefit PHP and I'm wondering what everyone else's thoughts on the topic are. Thoughts? Flames? Thanks, Anthony - -- Anthony Papillion Software Developer and IT Consultant Office: (918) 919-4624 Mobile: (918) 533-9699 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJOfJQ2AAoJEPz715nvCx+6YJAQAJb8yTWRsIlGn9t+hPlsL3Aq 4uIP09CzNqD3bHTrTeBAeTp67jctG8DETbTfWMhTmzgHOak3Y8UgvVYrTZUBoG8A SPaEsy4zl7FoNr8tCnX+u2afz/ajsgmd4F7usvRH0poDZ5Z+rRrsxrePtrcCFEQa I1rRXh/03Et217lSU9pAR7hgCUcwiCW/ppLn6nHF+uz1wgu89vnFU9czQ4y9GyB+ VuQfLmEUMvSXnWwMFBiOGTdGiLoSBfOeyIcsAXOQUwKFNYXxXYdKAUWczBzzWYB+ guFAl8TjEWlrr8swAghPh71ZmDRTRNjxkluPWDlLTN78kpvdPvIYeQUf9HvKzR0X kO2b9Ds4ZCUyXkBnLaPfMYlWBefGRtvq7NyzpoB9/o2YfTf8rwC0PHEcjPVMQley 8qv/gQQMkT/3FoJZ4OhTgAxcTMUQ333DHOLk3F6PZpb3HqmSphpEmXIHoCdM9duT y8SUS4oRNZF11PmvcnINT60M225lI3woOT0FNJ/Zyqjk9qCGQ6L7MHRXckmN7BXZ LllYB78Npp6CgDhM8TrH78FLGE0MzD/WIb9e8Jaz5/6WTplb9tqy8q8XXLYLgFc0 SBqCGwdTHRVVGCrZutSeLjz99xZ63PKPM5Adx36Y5Vw6jqP01K/qFTS+OoC6liK8 N+76oYZu5Lr3wqvjrSXm =PM8o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From yitzchak.schaffer at gmx.com Fri Sep 23 10:17:04 2011 From: yitzchak.schaffer at gmx.com (Yitzchak Schaffer) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:17:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Most common Framework In-Reply-To: References: <4E70DF9F.6070801@kacomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4E7C94E0.9000403@gmx.com> On 09/14/2011 16:44, Jesse Sanford wrote: > I don't use software if the documentation is not up to snuff. Don't > take api/(insert language here)doc as enough. When you are getting up > to speed in a new technology you need much more handholding or face > hair loss. You need cookbooks, working examples, CURRENT api and > method signatures. etc. > This is my pain with trying to learn symfony2 this week. I'm trying some stuff out, and just find myself repeatedly coming to a point and thinking, "okay, now what the heck am I supposed to do to achieve X?" Not so symfony1... not sure if it has better documentation or just b/c of the years of experience I have with it, but symfony1 seemed much more transparent, in a good way. The vertical Askeet/Jobeet tutorials were of course a big help. Actually I remember that the major changes for 1.2 threw me off, but nothing as bad as this. My main problem is divesting myself of the assumptions of the framework. Kohana was perfect for this; I had a weird, weird backend from a Perl application, for which I crafted a Kohana front-end; it was perfectly flexible, and the 2.3-something documentation was at least adequate. Then their community welched on the 2.4 release they'd been promising, and lost my trust. :( Goes to show how important community is, to me anyway. Haven't looked at CI in years, maybe time for a revisit. The whole let's-hug-PHP4 thing they had going at the time was a huge turnoff for me. -- Yitzchak Schaffer Systems Manager Touro College Libraries 212.742.8770 ext. 2432 http://www.tourolib.org/ Access Problems? Contact systems.library at touro.edu From justin at justinhileman.info Fri Sep 23 10:41:46 2011 From: justin at justinhileman.info (justin) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:41:46 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You might be better off enumerating "goodness"... /^ ([A-Z][a-z]+)+ # first name, consisting of any number of AbAbc, handles "LaDawn" \s+ ( # middle name (optional) [A-Z] # at the very least, has a capital letter ( \. # ends with either a dot | # ... or ... [a-z]+([A-Z][a-z]+)? # the rest of a name )? # but again, that's totally optional \s+ )? ([A-Z][a-z]+)+ # and a last name, following the same convention as the first (McGraw) $/x -- justin On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 6:54 AM, David Mintz wrote: > I'm trying to require users to input proper names with capitalization that > conforms to convention. So, you can't go e. e. cummings on me, and you can't > be JOHN SOMEBODY either. And you can't have your caps lock on and enter jOHN > sOMEBODY. That much is pretty easy, but I am finding the more subtle cases > pretty hard. > > So far, I have > > ? ? ? ? /\b[a-z][A-Z]+|\b[A-Z]{2,}+|^[a-z ]+$/ > > to test against (false is good). This works on all the cases I have tested > except "cuMmings," which gets by. But I am thinking, maybe enough is enough; > you can't control everything. > > Just wondering if anyone has tackled this before or has any thoughts. > > -- http://justinhileman.com From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 10:58:21 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:58:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:54 AM, David Mintz wrote: > > I'm trying to require users to input proper names with capitalization that > conforms to convention. The subtle cases exist more often than you think. Just ask Sarah O'Malley-van Dorf. I know, you know that, and it seems right to normalize. But it's so much easier to just let people spell their own names however they want to. See also http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/ From david at davidmintz.org Fri Sep 23 11:02:01 2011 From: david at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:02:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:41 AM, justin wrote: > You might be better off enumerating "goodness"... > > /^ > ([A-Z][a-z]+)+ # first name, consisting of any > number of AbAbc, handles "LaDawn" > \s+ > ( # middle name (optional) > [A-Z] # at the very least, has a capital > letter > ( > \. # ends with either a dot > | # ... or ... > [a-z]+([A-Z][a-z]+)? # the rest of a name > )? # but again, that's totally optional > \s+ > )? > ([A-Z][a-z]+)+ # and a last name, following the > same convention as the first (McGraw) > $/x > > > -- justin > > > Interesting, thanks. As it happens, the last, middle and first names are separate fields. (Actually I am labelling them "surname(s)" and "given name(s)" just to keep it confusing.) btw McDonald and its brethren pass the test I've written. But so does McdoNald, which is why I am thinking, ok, you are only so clever and if they want to input data that is wrong in some way or other, at some point you can't stop 'em. You did your due diligence. -- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ It ain't over: http://www.healthcare-now.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rainelemental at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 11:02:11 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:02:11 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why is there no 'PHP Foundation'? In-Reply-To: <4E7C9437.6060708@gmail.com> References: <4E7C9437.6060708@gmail.com> Message-ID: PHP is a totally anarchical language, where classes, functions, and different coding style are mixed together, so we have subStr and file_size. PHP has a weak presentation layer, so there are tons of approach and template engines to manage presentation. Also terms as MVC are used differently by their real meaning (http://devzone.zend.com/article/12997 ). PHP is mature enough to have some organization as the W3G for HTML, that should give some specification to follow like HTML4.1 , HTML 5. I wish PHP 6 could re-write all the functions and class with a single style, and a common design pattern, a better presentation layer. But who's going to take this responsability? As you well said, Anthony, Zend is a profit company we need some open source organization. I'm not the best person to do it, but I've some good idea to start something, why we don't talk about it somewhere with a good beer? -- Federico On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > Hi Everyone, > > So I've been learning a bit of Python and I already know Perl. One of > the strongest non-language related aspects of both languages is that > they both have a strong and active foundation behind them working > towards furthering adoption and acceptance of the languages within the > enterprise and other sectors. > > PHP has Zend. > > While I understand that Zend does an amazing job developing PHP and > solutions around the language, I'm wondering why there is no > non-profit foundation working to further the goals of the language in > non-commercial ways. Personally, I think being backed by a non-profit > interest could really benefit PHP and I'm wondering what everyone > else's thoughts on the topic are. > > Thoughts? Flames? > > Thanks, > Anthony > > - -- > Anthony Papillion > Software Developer and IT Consultant > Office: (918) 919-4624 > Mobile: (918) 533-9699 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJOfJQ2AAoJEPz715nvCx+6YJAQAJb8yTWRsIlGn9t+hPlsL3Aq > 4uIP09CzNqD3bHTrTeBAeTp67jctG8DETbTfWMhTmzgHOak3Y8UgvVYrTZUBoG8A > SPaEsy4zl7FoNr8tCnX+u2afz/ajsgmd4F7usvRH0poDZ5Z+rRrsxrePtrcCFEQa > I1rRXh/03Et217lSU9pAR7hgCUcwiCW/ppLn6nHF+uz1wgu89vnFU9czQ4y9GyB+ > VuQfLmEUMvSXnWwMFBiOGTdGiLoSBfOeyIcsAXOQUwKFNYXxXYdKAUWczBzzWYB+ > guFAl8TjEWlrr8swAghPh71ZmDRTRNjxkluPWDlLTN78kpvdPvIYeQUf9HvKzR0X > kO2b9Ds4ZCUyXkBnLaPfMYlWBefGRtvq7NyzpoB9/o2YfTf8rwC0PHEcjPVMQley > 8qv/gQQMkT/3FoJZ4OhTgAxcTMUQ333DHOLk3F6PZpb3HqmSphpEmXIHoCdM9duT > y8SUS4oRNZF11PmvcnINT60M225lI3woOT0FNJ/Zyqjk9qCGQ6L7MHRXckmN7BXZ > LllYB78Npp6CgDhM8TrH78FLGE0MzD/WIb9e8Jaz5/6WTplb9tqy8q8XXLYLgFc0 > SBqCGwdTHRVVGCrZutSeLjz99xZ63PKPM5Adx36Y5Vw6jqP01K/qFTS+OoC6liK8 > N+76oYZu5Lr3wqvjrSXm > =PM8o > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at davidmintz.org Fri Sep 23 11:14:05 2011 From: david at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:14:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Chris Snyder wrote: > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:54 AM, David Mintz wrote: > > > > I'm trying to require users to input proper names with capitalization > that > > conforms to convention. > > The subtle cases exist more often than you think. Just ask Sarah > O'Malley-van Dorf. > > I know, you know that, and it seems right to normalize. But it's so > much easier to just let people spell their own names however they want > to. > > See also > http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/ > _______________________________________________ > LOL. Disclosure: I didn't read your link yet. But here's the thing, this isn't for people to enter their own names, but someone else's: the names of defendants who require interpreters in criminal cases in federal court. Even the anglo idea of "first" and "last" names breaks down when you run up against cultures where last is first and vice-versa, meaning "last" and "first" is the wrong way to think about it. Accurately typing strange names in strange languages is so hard, it's no wonder there was once a study that found that 80% of the files in the US Immigration service had errors of one sort or another. A little OT digression about the hyphen. Many of you know that in the Spanish-speaking world people conventionally use two surnames, the paternal and maternal, in that order. Try explaining that to US law enforcement and corrections: they can't get their minds around it. So everyone has to get hyphenated. Makes me crazy. But there are occasional legitimate hyphen-jobs as well, so.... let it go, or talk to your therapist about it. -- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ It ain't over: http://www.healthcare-now.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 11:29:38 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:29:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > A little OT digression about the hyphen. Many of you know that in the > Spanish-speaking world people conventionally use two surnames, the paternal > and maternal, in that order. Try explaining that to US law enforcement and > corrections:? they can't get their minds around it. So everyone has to get > hyphenated. Or the opposite problem: I've been working with a city-run database that doesn't allow hyphens in names. Brilliant! From papillion at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 11:38:10 2011 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:38:10 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Quick question about mcrypt return values Message-ID: Hey Everyone, So I've never used MCRYPT before today and I've got a question. How can I tell if it's worked or failed? The doc says MCRYPT_DECRYPT() and MCRYPT_ENCRYPT() will return decrypted or encrypted data respectively but how do I know if it's completely failed? Thanks! Anthony -- Anthony Papillion Software and IT Consultant Phone: (918) 919-4624 From rainelemental at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 11:44:42 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:44:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: validate this :) http://current.com/entertainment/wtf/89484683_teen-breaks-record-with-super-hero-name-change.htm I think the best way is to keep it open, so what about this: (\w(\s|\'|\-){0,1})* Also how do you validate Chinese, Japanese, Hindy, Arab and others languages name? -- Federico Ulfo ? Certified Developer Google & PHP On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Chris Snyder wrote: > > A little OT digression about the hyphen. Many of you know that in the > > Spanish-speaking world people conventionally use two surnames, the > paternal > > and maternal, in that order. Try explaining that to US law enforcement > and > > corrections: they can't get their minds around it. So everyone has to > get > > hyphenated. > > Or the opposite problem: I've been working with a city-run database > that doesn't allow hyphens in names. Brilliant! > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 11:47:58 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:47:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Quick question about mcrypt return values In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > So I've never used MCRYPT before today and I've got a question. How > can I tell if it's worked or failed? The doc says MCRYPT_DECRYPT() and > MCRYPT_ENCRYPT() will return decrypted or encrypted data respectively > but how do I know if it's completely failed? > > Thanks! > Anthony > If it failed you get binary gibberish, or nothing, and you get to troubleshoot till you figure out the problem. It's not very dev friendly, but it works. From papillion at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 11:50:14 2011 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:50:14 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Quick question about mcrypt return values In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Chris Snyder wrote: > > If it failed you get binary gibberish, or nothing, and you get to > troubleshoot till you figure out the problem. > > It's not very dev friendly, but it works. That's enough for me. Thank you! From zippy1981 at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 13:49:12 2011 From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:49:12 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why is there no 'PHP Foundation'? In-Reply-To: References: <4E7C9437.6060708@gmail.com> Message-ID: The question is does PHP need that non-profit when anarchy has served it well? Who would serve in the organization? The key contributors? Its to late for anyone to own the copyright to PHP and make all contributors sign copyright over to them. What exactly would this body do? As far as advocating PHP in the enterprise, I think Zend, IBM and Jetbrains do fantastic jobs of that. Why do we need a non-profit to cater to for-profits? Justin On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Federico Ulfo wrote: > PHP is a totally anarchical language, where classes, functions, and > different coding style are mixed together, so we have subStr and file_size. > PHP has a weak presentation layer, so there are tons of approach and > template engines to manage presentation. Also terms as MVC are used > differently by their real meaning (http://devzone.zend.com/article/12997 > ). > > PHP is mature enough to have some organization as the W3G for HTML, that > should give some specification to follow like HTML4.1 , HTML 5. I wish PHP 6 > could re-write all the functions and class with a single style, and a common > design pattern, a better presentation layer. > > But who's going to take this responsability? As you well said, Anthony, > Zend is a profit company we need some open source organization. I'm not the > best person to do it, but I've some good idea to start something, why we > don't talk about it somewhere with a good beer? > > -- Federico > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA256 >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> So I've been learning a bit of Python and I already know Perl. One of >> the strongest non-language related aspects of both languages is that >> they both have a strong and active foundation behind them working >> towards furthering adoption and acceptance of the languages within the >> enterprise and other sectors. >> >> PHP has Zend. >> >> While I understand that Zend does an amazing job developing PHP and >> solutions around the language, I'm wondering why there is no >> non-profit foundation working to further the goals of the language in >> non-commercial ways. Personally, I think being backed by a non-profit >> interest could really benefit PHP and I'm wondering what everyone >> else's thoughts on the topic are. >> >> Thoughts? Flames? >> >> Thanks, >> Anthony >> >> - -- >> Anthony Papillion >> Software Developer and IT Consultant >> Office: (918) 919-4624 >> Mobile: (918) 533-9699 >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) >> >> iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJOfJQ2AAoJEPz715nvCx+6YJAQAJb8yTWRsIlGn9t+hPlsL3Aq >> 4uIP09CzNqD3bHTrTeBAeTp67jctG8DETbTfWMhTmzgHOak3Y8UgvVYrTZUBoG8A >> SPaEsy4zl7FoNr8tCnX+u2afz/ajsgmd4F7usvRH0poDZ5Z+rRrsxrePtrcCFEQa >> I1rRXh/03Et217lSU9pAR7hgCUcwiCW/ppLn6nHF+uz1wgu89vnFU9czQ4y9GyB+ >> VuQfLmEUMvSXnWwMFBiOGTdGiLoSBfOeyIcsAXOQUwKFNYXxXYdKAUWczBzzWYB+ >> guFAl8TjEWlrr8swAghPh71ZmDRTRNjxkluPWDlLTN78kpvdPvIYeQUf9HvKzR0X >> kO2b9Ds4ZCUyXkBnLaPfMYlWBefGRtvq7NyzpoB9/o2YfTf8rwC0PHEcjPVMQley >> 8qv/gQQMkT/3FoJZ4OhTgAxcTMUQ333DHOLk3F6PZpb3HqmSphpEmXIHoCdM9duT >> y8SUS4oRNZF11PmvcnINT60M225lI3woOT0FNJ/Zyqjk9qCGQ6L7MHRXckmN7BXZ >> LllYB78Npp6CgDhM8TrH78FLGE0MzD/WIb9e8Jaz5/6WTplb9tqy8q8XXLYLgFc0 >> SBqCGwdTHRVVGCrZutSeLjz99xZ63PKPM5Adx36Y5Vw6jqP01K/qFTS+OoC6liK8 >> N+76oYZu5Lr3wqvjrSXm >> =PM8o >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 14:06:38 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 14:06:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why is there no 'PHP Foundation'? In-Reply-To: References: <4E7C9437.6060708@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Justin Dearing wrote: > As far as advocating PHP in the enterprise, I think Zend, IBM and Jetbrains > do fantastic jobs of that. Why do we need a non-profit to cater to > for-profits? I agree that Zend has been a pretty good steward of PHP. But Java folks said that about Sun, and look where they are now. Companies (and their IP) get bought and sold. Putting PHP in the hands of a foundation would help insulate us from the eventual sale/merger/acquisition/bankruptcy/profit-motives of Zend. It's not something that needs to happen, but it's worth thinking about, if for no other reason then to prevent a bunch of different, incompatible forks of PHP if Zend ever goes dark. From cmerlo at ncc.edu Fri Sep 23 14:53:47 2011 From: cmerlo at ncc.edu (Christopher R. Merlo) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 14:53:47 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Once upon a time, I had students writing a Name class do all sorts of funky validation and auto-correction, even checking for "Mc", "Mac", "De", and "de" specifically. It's an awful chore, and it seemed like every semester someone thought of a valid name that my hardcore regex missed. Now I use different examples altogether. :) -c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Fri Sep 23 15:28:18 2011 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:28:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That would be "Hindi" but there's no upper or lower case letters in the Hindu alphabet :-) Sent from my iPad On Sep 23, 2011, at 11:44 AM, Federico Ulfo wrote: > validate this :) > http://current.com/entertainment/wtf/89484683_teen-breaks-record-with-super-hero-name-change.htm > > I think the best way is to keep it open, so what about this: > (\w(\s|\'|\-){0,1})* > > Also how do you validate Chinese, Japanese, Hindy, Arab and others languages name? > > -- > Federico Ulfo ? > Certified Developer Google & PHP > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Chris Snyder wrote: > > A little OT digression about the hyphen. Many of you know that in the > > Spanish-speaking world people conventionally use two surnames, the paternal > > and maternal, in that order. Try explaining that to US law enforcement and > > corrections: they can't get their minds around it. So everyone has to get > > hyphenated. > > Or the opposite problem: I've been working with a city-run database > that doesn't allow hyphens in names. Brilliant! > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zippy1981 at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 15:36:29 2011 From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:36:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why is there no 'PHP Foundation'? In-Reply-To: References: <4E7C9437.6060708@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: > It's not something that needs to happen, but it's worth thinking about, > if for no other reason then to prevent a bunch of different, incompatible > forks of PHP if Zend ever goes dark. I don't think there is a clear copyright owner for PHP. When I made my tiny contribution (possibly to tiny to legally copyright) to PHP I never had to sign away copyright to anyone and I never heard of anyone signing a copyright assignment document (unlike mongodb and sharpdevelop). If Zend ever went dark I'd expect Microsoft and IBM and the other big corporate stakeholders to actually play nice with each other. The community contributors will keep on keeping on. The open office foundation did not stop the forking of Libre/Open office. It didn't even stop the NeoOffice fork (who I've actually given money to) from happening. Justin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tedd.sperling at gmail.com Sat Sep 24 10:39:42 2011 From: tedd.sperling at gmail.com (Tedd Sperling) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:39:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 23, 2011, at 11:29 AM, Chris Snyder wrote: > Or the opposite problem: I've been working with a city-run database > that doesn't allow hyphens in names. Brilliant! Tell me about it. Many years ago I started a company in Michigan named "?.com". I don't know if the BULLET character will make it through your email program, but it's a legitimate character none the less. I even had/have a web site for the name for over ten years, namely: http://xn--nvg.com (<-- note this URL is PUNYCODE). On Windows Machines, the URL will how up as PUNYCODE, but for Mac Machines running Safari, you will see a BULLET dot com in the address bar. In any event, when I printed the name of the Michigan State's DBA registration, it printed well enough via my Mac. But when the Michigan Secretary of State tried to enter the name into their database, they did not know how to enter a BULLET on their Windows machines. So, I showed them that if the typed 0149 with the ALT key a BULLET would be produced. So, I was able to get the name into their machines. But they didn't like it because it was different. However, I insisted that the character was a legitimate character and that's what I wanted for my company name. So my request rattled all the way up to THE Secretary of State who ruled that all Michigan companies names must be ASCII only. That is the rule now. So, if you want to start a Business in Michigan, you must use a name that only contains ASCII characters. No foreign characters allowed here! As always, the government knows best. :-) Cheers, tedd _____________________ tedd at sperling.com http://sperling.com From chsnyder at gmail.com Sat Sep 24 13:51:05 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 13:51:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Tedd Sperling wrote: > So, if you want to start a Business in Michigan, you must use a name that only contains ASCII characters. No foreign characters allowed here! As always, the government knows best. :-) > Or lowest-bid-but-nevertheless-paid-millions-of-taxpayer-dollars systems engineers are lazy when it comes to unicode support. I hope you renamed your company •.com or similar! From rukbatsramblings at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 10:56:17 2011 From: rukbatsramblings at gmail.com (Rukbat) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:56:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> On 9/24/2011 1:51 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: > I hope you renamed your company •.com or similar! Try http://xn--nvg.com/ (That's punycode for the dot.) From rainelemental at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 12:09:54 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 12:09:54 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> Message-ID: Could be nice if you guys share your validation class/functions with us, on github could be cool On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Rukbat wrote: > On 9/24/2011 1:51 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: > >> I hope you renamed your company •.com or similar! >> > Try http://xn--nvg.com/ (That's punycode for the dot.) > > ______________________________**_________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-**Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbaltz at altzman.com Tue Sep 27 12:28:40 2011 From: jbaltz at altzman.com (Jerry B. Altzman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 12:28:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> on 9/27/2011 10:56 AM Rukbat said the following: > On 9/24/2011 1:51 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: >> I hope you renamed your company •.com or similar! > Try http://xn--nvg.com/ (That's punycode for the dot.) It's for sale: http://symboldomains.com/symbol-domains-for-sale.html I note that on Win7+FF and Win7+Chrome, none of those domains appear in the address bar; they've all been punycoded. Damn, if I still used Macsyma, I'd want http://xn--d9g.com. (And yes, I got xn--3-6mb.com for my company.) ObPHP: how *do* you deal with these types of things in $_SERVER['HTTP_HOST']? //jbaltz -- jerry b. altzman | jbaltz at altzman.com | www.jbaltz.com | twitter:@lorvax thank you for contributing to the heat death of the universe. From tedd.sperling at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 11:49:00 2011 From: tedd.sperling at gmail.com (Tedd Sperling) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 11:49:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> Message-ID: <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> On Sep 27, 2011, at 12:28 PM, Jerry B. Altzman wrote: > on 9/27/2011 10:56 AM Rukbat said the following: >> On 9/24/2011 1:51 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: >>> I hope you renamed your company •.com or similar! >> Try http://xn--nvg.com/ (That's punycode for the dot.) > > It's for sale: > http://symboldomains.com/symbol-domains-for-sale.html > > I note that on Win7+FF and Win7+Chrome, none of those domains appear in the address bar; they've all been punycoded. > > Damn, if I still used Macsyma, I'd want http://xn--d9g.com. > (And yes, I got xn--3-6mb.com for my company.) > > ObPHP: how *do* you deal with these types of things in $_SERVER['HTTP_HOST']? > > //jbaltz > -- > jerry b. altzman | jbaltz at altzman.com | www.jbaltz.com | twitter:@lorvax jerry: How do I deal with the PUNYCODE problem? I live with it hoping that someday M$ (and others) will find a solution to the homographic problem that they envision by showing PUNYCODE instead of showing what the IDNS WG wanted. Cheers, tedd _____________________ tedd at sperling.com http://sperling.com From ramons at gmx.net Thu Sep 29 12:50:02 2011 From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 12:50:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> On 9/29/2011 11:49 AM, Tedd Sperling wrote: > jerry: > > How do I deal with the PUNYCODE problem? I live with it hoping that someday M$ (and others) will find a solution to the homographic problem that they envision by showing PUNYCODE instead of showing what the IDNS WG wanted. > > Cheers, > > tedd Tried this with FF7 and IE9 and IETab in FF7. The only one that gets it straight is IETab...kinda funny. Then again, who wants such a URL for a business anyway? Nobody can type that letter on their keyboard and the punycode equivalent isn't really easy to remember or meaningful. Yes, it makes the geek in me smile, but I hardly see any practical purpose for this. David From jcampbell1 at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 14:06:33 2011 From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:06:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> Message-ID: > Then again, who wants such a URL for a business anyway? Nobody can type that > letter on their keyboard and the punycode equivalent isn't really easy to > remember or meaningful. Yes, it makes the geek in me smile, but I hardly see > any practical purpose for this. It is designed for people coming from other languages. Like groupon in china is gaopeng.com, but gaopeng is ?? when written as characters. ??.com is http://xn--bpvz66i.com/ in puny code. The problem with puny code is that it is a security nightmare, and no safe browsers are ever going to support it. Can you find the difference between http://paypal.com/ and http://paypa?.com/ ? Regards, John Campbell From jorge at refinery29.com Thu Sep 29 14:19:20 2011 From: jorge at refinery29.com (Jorge Lopez) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:19:20 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Making Startups Work: Scaling Survival Stories Message-ID: We're (Refinery29) are hosting a set of presentations about scaling at our offices on Tuesday. Check it out: http://msw-scaling.eventbrite.com/ Work at a tech startup? Wondering how you're going to scale to handle millions of users and still stay online? Hear the engineers behind some of the coolest NYC-area startups describe the problems they ran into as their traffic boomed. Learn how various engineering teams pin point and solve performance problems though the use of hardware and software optimization, caching, database tweaks, and other tricks of the trade. If you're curious about what they do and what kinds of technical problems they're solving, things they've learned, etc, come by Refinery29's new offices on Tuesday the 4th to hear what's going on in the startup community's most interesting up and coming startups. Presentations by: - Thrillist - Michael Smith - Postling - Chris Maguire - Warby Parker - Ali Khan - Single Platform - James Linder - Refinery29 - Jorge Lopez - Tutor Spree - Paul deGrandis - Sailthru - Ian White -- * Jorge Lopez ** I ** ** VP of Engineering * * * * REFINERY29 30 Cooper Square, Floor 4, New York, NY 10003 Office: 212-966-3112 I Mobile: 917-267-9130 Refinery29.com I Twitter I Facebook * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 15:24:36 2011 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:24:36 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:06 PM, John Campbell wrote: > The problem with puny code is that it is a security nightmare, and no > safe browsers are ever going to support it. > > Can you find the difference between http://paypal.com/ and > http://paypa?.com/ ? > The EV SSL certificate? I don't know, there IS a security concern here, but the ASCII requirement is a really big f**k you to the billions of people around the world who use non-western character sets. You think it's hard for you to type a bullet character on your keyboard? Try typing "php.ru" on a Cyrillic keyboard. From ramons at gmx.net Thu Sep 29 15:44:20 2011 From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:44:20 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4E84CA94.7090206@gmx.net> On 9/29/2011 2:06 PM, John Campbell wrote: >> Then again, who wants such a URL for a business anyway? Nobody can type that >> letter on their keyboard and the punycode equivalent isn't really easy to >> remember or meaningful. Yes, it makes the geek in me smile, but I hardly see >> any practical purpose for this. > > It is designed for people coming from other languages. Like groupon > in china is gaopeng.com, but gaopeng is ?? when written as characters. > ??.com is http://xn--bpvz66i.com/ in puny code. > > The problem with puny code is that it is a security nightmare, and no > safe browsers are ever going to support it. > > Can you find the difference between http://paypal.com/ and > http://paypa?.com/ ? > > > Regards, > John Campbell Got it! Makes much more sense to me now. Thanks. David From jcampbell1 at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 16:12:38 2011 From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:12:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:06 PM, John Campbell wrote: > >> The problem with puny code is that it is a security nightmare, and no >> safe browsers are ever going to support it. >> >> Can you find the difference between http://paypal.com/ and >> http://paypa?.com/ ? >> > > The EV SSL certificate? The l in the second paypal is actually a ? which is an l with a dot under it. I could buy that domain and a SSL cert for it, then do a bunch of fishing attacks and no one would notice the tiny dot in paypa?. From tedd.sperling at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 16:44:51 2011 From: tedd.sperling at gmail.com (Tedd Sperling) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:44:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization Message-ID: <66A69E45-C29B-43F8-A872-FE5461C161D4@gmail.com> On Sep 29, 2011, at 3:44 PM, David Krings wrote: > On 9/29/2011 2:06 PM, John Campbell wrote: >> It is designed for people coming from other languages. Like groupon >> in china is gaopeng.com, but gaopeng is ?? when written as characters. >> ??.com is http://xn--bpvz66i.com/ in puny code. >> >> The problem with puny code is that it is a security nightmare, and no >> safe browsers are ever going to support it. >> >> Can you find the difference between http://paypal.com/ and >> http://paypa?.com/ ? >> >> Regards, >> John Campbell John: You got the obvious right, but that's the problem. According to any computer I use, there is a difference between code-points regardless of what they look like. Just because you can find two, or more, code-points that look alike does not mean that computers can be fooled. Code-points are different by definition. The problem arises when Browsers show code-points but do not also indicate to the user that these code-points are from different language/character sets. This could be easily solved by simply coloring the url. This was suggested/discussed in the IDNS WG back in 2000, but was not considered by Browser makers. For example, the paypal.com problem you described could be easily solved by simply coloring a mixed char-set URL. Would you give personal information to a URL if the URL was colored red or blinking red? I think not. On the other hand, keep in mind that only three precent of the world's population has English as their native language. So, the question really becomes, is PUNYCODE the answer for everyone? It was never intended by the IDNS WG for the end-user to ever see it -- this decision was made by the Browser makers, not users. Consider that when the rest of the world logs on to the Internet and starts demanding that they be able to use their own native language, you will see Browser makers either consider how to fix this problem -- OR -- find themselves in the position that M$ is now in because of their head-fast insistence of ignoring W3C standards and as a result being surpassed by other Browser makers. As M$ found out, you can't stop progress regardless of what marketshare you have. This is a problem, but not an unsolvable one. Browsers will support PUNYCODE AND be safe eventually. Cheers, tedd _____________________ tedd at sperling.com http://sperling.com From tedd.sperling at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 16:44:47 2011 From: tedd.sperling at gmail.com (Tedd Sperling) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:44:47 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <4E84CA94.7090206@gmx.net> References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> <4E84CA94.7090206@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Sep 29, 2011, at 3:44 PM, David Krings wrote: > On 9/29/2011 2:06 PM, John Campbell wrote: >>> Then again, who wants such a URL for a business anyway? Nobody can type that >>> letter on their keyboard and the punycode equivalent isn't really easy to >>> remember or meaningful. Yes, it makes the geek in me smile, but I hardly see >>> any practical purpose for this. >> >> It is designed for people coming from other languages. Like groupon >> in china is gaopeng.com, but gaopeng is ?? when written as characters. >> ??.com is http://xn--bpvz66i.com/ in puny code. > -snip- > > Got it! Makes much more sense to me now. Thanks. > > David David: In addition to all that was said about other Languages/Customs having access to the Internet in their own native Languages, let me add there ARE symbols in the English Language. We commonly use math symbols, dingbat characters, grammar, and other such symbols in our English language, right? In addition, these symbols are on your keyboard, or can be accessed by your keyboard. Just because the Windows environment makes it hard to type a BULLET for example, (ALT 0149), it is really a simple thing to do on a Macintosh -- it's just option 8 -- one character. The world no longer revolves around M$. As such, in the Safari Browser I can type an option 8 in the address bar and go directly to: http://xn--nvg.com the URL will show ?.com. Another example, if a Macintosh user types option v into the Safari Browser address bar they will go to ?.com (square-root dot com), namely http://xn--nvg.com. Incidentally, that site receives over 200 unique Mac users per day and that rate is rising. So, your questions as to "who wants such an URL for business anyway?", let me reply if your customers could remember your site by simply typing a single character into their address bar, would that sound like a good thing to you? Especially if you were selling a Mac product? Keep in mind that while single character domains are not available, it has been speculated that they would run into the millions of dollars for each if they were. So, what's the value of a single character domain? In that regard, this makes a good read: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/28/tech/main1080245.shtml In addition, these domains can be combined with other domains so that IF the user was on a Windows machine, they would go to one site and if they were on a Safari browser they could go to the url that would show the domain as a symbol. It is simply a redirect and a marketing consideration. In any event, considering I've been developing software for Apple computers for over three decades now, I'm considering using option v (square-root) OR option 8 (BULLET) as a site to sell my software. I think it's a neat idea, but I've failed before. :-) Cheers, tedd PS: To fall three times is to rise four. -- John Leonning (circa 1973) _____________________ tedd at sperling.com http://sperling.com From tedd.sperling at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 16:54:30 2011 From: tedd.sperling at gmail.com (Tedd Sperling) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:54:30 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> Message-ID: <6DF5663D-BD2B-40E0-A81E-1A89EC69735C@gmail.com> On Sep 29, 2011, at 4:12 PM, John Campbell wrote: > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:06 PM, John Campbell wrote: >> >>> The problem with puny code is that it is a security nightmare, and no >>> safe browsers are ever going to support it. >>> >>> Can you find the difference between http://paypal.com/ and >>> http://paypa?.com/ ? >>> >> >> The EV SSL certificate? > > The l in the second paypal is actually a ? which is an l with a dot > under it. I could buy that domain and a SSL cert for it, then do a > bunch of fishing attacks and no one would notice the tiny dot in > paypa?. > _______________________________________________ Disclaimer: The following may/may not be true. And in my opinion PayPal would sue you out of existence, as I believe they did with the person who created the first homographic attack example. However, the above statement might be stuff of an urban myth, so I am neither confirming/nor denying the truth of this incident if it did occur, or not. However, I will say that discussing this incident (if it occurred, or not) is serious stuff. Thread carefully. Cheers, tedd _____________________ tedd at sperling.com http://sperling.com From jcampbell1 at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 17:04:16 2011 From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 17:04:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <66A69E45-C29B-43F8-A872-FE5461C161D4@gmail.com> References: <66A69E45-C29B-43F8-A872-FE5461C161D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: > This is a problem, but not an unsolvable one. Browsers will support PUNYCODE AND be safe eventually. You are right, that it is more complicated than I initially mentioned, however, chromium has pretty much decided already which way they are going to go. Don't hold your breath waiting for ?.com to be supported, because in the design documents it is something they won't fix. There is a nice summary at the bottom, and you will see that Google has chosen to go the same route as Microsoft. My guess is that Safari will become more secure like Chrome/IE/Firefox, not the other way around. see: http://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/idn-in-google-chrome > Cheers, > > tedd > > _____________________ > tedd at sperling.com > http://sperling.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Sep 29 17:08:51 2011 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 17:08:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20110929210850.GA23768@panix.com> Heya: On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 04:12:38PM -0400, John Campbell wrote: > > The l in the second paypal is actually a ? which is an l with a dot > under it. I could buy that domain and a SSL cert for it And these days, you can even forge an SSL cert says you're the real Paypal and/or use newly worked out TLS attacks to man-in-the-middle secure sessions. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From tedd.sperling at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 18:10:43 2011 From: tedd.sperling at gmail.com (Tedd Sperling) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:10:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: <66A69E45-C29B-43F8-A872-FE5461C161D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <21641E03-4DD9-45C7-910A-411E29CE9533@gmail.com> On Sep 29, 2011, at 5:04 PM, John Campbell wrote: >> This is a problem, but not an unsolvable one. Browsers will support PUNYCODE AND be safe eventually. > My guess is that > Safari will become more secure like Chrome/IE/Firefox, not the other > way around. Who knows? I know that the majority of Apple's profit came from overseas last year and a few weeks ago they surpassed Exxon as the richest company on the planet -- in other words, Apple won. Now what Apple does is really up to Apple. I'm guessing they won't follow the heard. And why should they? They made their fortune by leading not following. Cheers, tedd _____________________ tedd at sperling.com http://sperling.com From ramons at gmx.net Thu Sep 29 18:50:29 2011 From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:50:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: References: <4E81E411.20601@gmail.com> <4E81F9B8.40601@altzman.com> <041F7613-9F08-4718-88CB-FAAE6F60B8DC@gmail.com> <4E84A1BA.6000005@gmx.net> <4E84CA94.7090206@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4E84F635.9050206@gmx.net> On 9/29/2011 4:44 PM, Tedd Sperling wrote: > David: > > In addition to all that was said about other Languages/Customs having access to the Internet in their own native Languages, let me add there ARE symbols in the English Language. We commonly use math symbols, dingbat characters, grammar, and other such symbols in our English language, right? Yes, but are those characters a wise choice for an easy to remember URL? I get the Chinese characters and that it matters to Chinese speaking people, but for a US business to use a URL of ??.com does not make much sense. Yes, it may be technically possible and a perfectly valid URL, but aside from a handful of geeks you won't find anyone who knows how to enter these characters. > In addition, these symbols are on your keyboard, or can be accessed by your keyboard. Just because the Windows environment makes it hard to type a BULLET for example, (ALT 0149), it is really a simple thing to do on a Macintosh -- it's just option 8 -- one character. The world no longer revolves around M$. I could make the same complaint. How come that I cannot type easily ?? on a US keyboard, but it is a piece of cake on a German layout keyboard. Why does the world solely revolve around the US? That is even more the point for cyrillic or chinese characters. > As such, in the Safari Browser I can type an option 8 in the address bar and go directly to: http://xn--nvg.com the URL will show ?.com. > > Another example, if a Macintosh user types option v into the Safari Browser address bar they will go to ?.com (square-root dot com), namely http://xn--nvg.com. Incidentally, that site receives over 200 unique Mac users per day and that rate is rising. So how many unique users would it get when it was called squareroot.com? I bet it would be noticeably more. Mac and Safari users exist in negligible numbers. And I use Safari myself and part time a Mac at work, so it isn't that I diss the Apple products in any way. > So, your questions as to "who wants such an URL for business anyway?", let me reply if your customers could remember your site by simply typing a single character into their address bar, would that sound like a good thing to you? Especially if you were selling a Mac product? It would be a good idea if I sell a Mac product, but the vast majority of the computing industry does not come across Macs or Safari, they are still a niche product. I'm not dissing the products, but the user base is negligible for general purposes. Apple excels more with consumer devices, such as MP3 players and phones and tablets. Those all have no keyboards. I never used an iPad/iPhone (way too expensive for me), so not sure how the text entry works on those, but for that I could see a single character domain being useful. > Keep in mind that while single character domains are not available, it has been speculated that they would run into the millions of dollars for each if they were. So, what's the value of a single character domain? In that regard, this makes a good read: > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/28/tech/main1080245.shtml The price for single character domains would be high, because there is really only a limited number of URLs available - as stated in the article. I get that part. > > In addition, these domains can be combined with other domains so that IF the user was on a Windows machine, they would go to one site and if they were on a Safari browser they could go to the url that would show the domain as a symbol. It is simply a redirect and a marketing consideration. > > In any event, considering I've been developing software for Apple computers for over three decades now, I'm considering using option v (square-root) OR option 8 (BULLET) as a site to sell my software. > > I think it's a neat idea, but I've failed before. :-) > > Cheers, > > tedd As far as the success of a URL is concerned, it is difficult to determine how well it does compared to a different URL. In order to really make a reasonable call both URLs need to be advertised the same way to the same audience. And it depends a lot on the audience. In your case you are solely focused on the Mac users, but do you honestly think that ?.com would be a good name for a comany that sells round push buttons? Yea, it is awesome to have the product displayed right in the URL, but it will be odd that online orders come only from 4.6% of potential buyers (the market share of the Safari browser). I understand that it works for you, but be honest, it is a special case. David From ramons at gmx.net Thu Sep 29 19:24:50 2011 From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 19:24:50 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <21641E03-4DD9-45C7-910A-411E29CE9533@gmail.com> References: <66A69E45-C29B-43F8-A872-FE5461C161D4@gmail.com> <21641E03-4DD9-45C7-910A-411E29CE9533@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E84FE42.8090505@gmx.net> On 9/29/2011 6:10 PM, Tedd Sperling wrote: > Now what Apple does is really up to Apple. I'm guessing they won't follow the heard. And why should they? They made their fortune by leading not following. In which area does Apple lead? Design maybe, but as far as innovation and product ideas are concerned, they use stuff that other had long ago. From tedd.sperling at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 09:44:25 2011 From: tedd.sperling at gmail.com (Tedd Sperling) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:44:25 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <4E84FE42.8090505@gmx.net> References: <66A69E45-C29B-43F8-A872-FE5461C161D4@gmail.com> <21641E03-4DD9-45C7-910A-411E29CE9533@gmail.com> <4E84FE42.8090505@gmx.net> Message-ID: <5DCD0A71-EC46-4DBC-8A67-0150E6E65EF4@gmail.com> On Sep 29, 2011, at 7:24 PM, David Krings wrote: > On 9/29/2011 6:10 PM, Tedd Sperling wrote: >> Now what Apple does is really up to Apple. I'm guessing they won't follow the heard. And why should they? They made their fortune by leading not following. > In which area does Apple lead? Design maybe, but as far as innovation and product ideas are concerned, they use stuff that other had long ago. We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. But with that said, do you deny that Apple has brought more technical advancements in personal computers than others? Remember, in 1977, they introduced the Apple ][ -- before that there were no personal computers -- we had to use Main-frames. In 1981-2, they introduced the mouse, which M$ said would never catch on. I could go on, but the point is that from my perspective, they have led the way for the last three decades with more advancements than I can cite here. But that's my experience -- there's no reason to get into a religious war over who's computer is best. Let's not. Cheers, tedd _____________________ tedd at sperling.com http://sperling.com From rainelemental at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 09:55:55 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:55:55 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] somewhat OT Re: validating proper name capitalization In-Reply-To: <5DCD0A71-EC46-4DBC-8A67-0150E6E65EF4@gmail.com> References: <66A69E45-C29B-43F8-A872-FE5461C161D4@gmail.com> <21641E03-4DD9-45C7-910A-411E29CE9533@gmail.com> <4E84FE42.8090505@gmx.net> <5DCD0A71-EC46-4DBC-8A67-0150E6E65EF4@gmail.com> Message-ID: To stay on topic, I think is clear that the validation of the name cannot be done with a simple regular expression, so do you know any good class or functions to validate first name and last name? thanks, - fu On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Tedd Sperling wrote: > On Sep 29, 2011, at 7:24 PM, David Krings wrote: > > On 9/29/2011 6:10 PM, Tedd Sperling wrote: > >> Now what Apple does is really up to Apple. I'm guessing they won't > follow the heard. And why should they? They made their fortune by leading > not following. > > In which area does Apple lead? Design maybe, but as far as innovation and > product ideas are concerned, they use stuff that other had long ago. > > We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. > > But with that said, do you deny that Apple has brought more technical > advancements in personal computers than others? > > Remember, in 1977, they introduced the Apple ][ -- before that there were > no personal computers -- we had to use Main-frames. In 1981-2, they > introduced the mouse, which M$ said would never catch on. I could go on, but > the point is that from my perspective, they have led the way for the last > three decades with more advancements than I can cite here. But that's my > experience -- there's no reason to get into a religious war over who's > computer is best. Let's not. > > Cheers, > > tedd > > _____________________ > tedd at sperling.com > http://sperling.com > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mutazmusa at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 15:29:05 2011 From: mutazmusa at gmail.com (Mutaz Musa) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:29:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Entrepreneurial Meetings in NYC Message-ID: Hi folks, What are some of the more popular meetups/conferences/etc for tech entrepreneurs in the city. Thanks, Mutaz www.Qiurio.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bmartin at mac.com Fri Sep 30 18:13:16 2011 From: bmartin at mac.com (Bruce Martin) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 22:13:16 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Insert updating instead of inserting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88485064-bce9-c639-eb8d-a5385dc3bf47@me.com> Hi all, I have an issue I hope someone can help me figure out. We have a Mysql database two php processes that insert new records into a table. There should never be a time when these processes update a record they should only insert a new one. These?processes?run?simultaneously?one running from a cron job and the other running when requested is made via an ajax call.? For some reason when each process is working at the same time It seems to not insert a new record but update a similar record. I am?explicitly?calling insert and I do not include the primary_key id in the insert statement.? Just some background I have a table that contains: id | user_id | item_id | description | debit | price | created | modified id is the primary key? a user should have multiple records, each time this is run it adds a new record to the table and the id, price, created and modified should change, item_id could change too. I thought maybe mysql was getting confused, so I created a stored procedure to do this insert, but it still, on?occasion?updates. Anyway has anyone?experienced?an issue where mysql will update instead of insert? Thanks for any leads you might have at resolving this issue.? Bruce Martin The Martin Solution Bruce at martinsolution.com http://www.martinsolution.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcech at phpwerx.net Fri Sep 30 19:00:46 2011 From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:00:46 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Insert updating instead of inserting In-Reply-To: <88485064-bce9-c639-eb8d-a5385dc3bf47@me.com> References: <88485064-bce9-c639-eb8d-a5385dc3bf47@me.com> Message-ID: <4E864A1E.8070505@phpwerx.net> Bruce, > I have an issue I hope someone can help me figure out. We have a Mysql database > two php processes that insert new records into a table. There should never be a > time when these processes update a record they should only insert a new one. > These processes run simultaneously one running from a cron job and the other > running when requested is made via an ajax call. > > For some reason when each process is working at the same time It seems to not > insert a new record but update a similar record. I am explicitly calling insert > and I do not include the primary_key id in the insert statement. Can you post the output from SHOW CREATE TABLE and an example of the queries you're running? Also, please don't create a new topic by hitting reply and changing the subject, it breaks threading in most mail clients. Dan From rainelemental at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 19:13:11 2011 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:13:11 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Insert updating instead of inserting In-Reply-To: <4E864A1E.8070505@phpwerx.net> References: <88485064-bce9-c639-eb8d-a5385dc3bf47@me.com> <4E864A1E.8070505@phpwerx.net> Message-ID: Weird issue, are you using INSERT INTO ... ON DUPLICATE KEY ... UPDATE? http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/insert-on-duplicate.html Also if you don't want to receive any MySql error from the INSERT query you might want to user INSERT IGNORE, it won't do nothing if the row you're inserting is already there. Just in case you don't find a simple solution, you can create a pipeline for the chron job and let him handle all the insert queries. On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Dan Cech wrote: > Bruce, > > > I have an issue I hope someone can help me figure out. We have a Mysql >> database >> two php processes that insert new records into a table. There should never >> be a >> time when these processes update a record they should only insert a new >> one. >> These processes run simultaneously one running from a cron job and the >> other >> running when requested is made via an ajax call. >> >> For some reason when each process is working at the same time It seems to >> not >> insert a new record but update a similar record. I am explicitly calling >> insert >> and I do not include the primary_key id in the insert statement. >> > > Can you post the output from SHOW CREATE TABLE and an example of the > queries you're running? > > Also, please don't create a new topic by hitting reply and changing the > subject, it breaks threading in most mail clients. > > Dan > ______________________________**_________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-**Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: